Who would be your dictator?

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Re: Who would be your dictator?

Postby Smitty-48 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:39 am

It's not so much that the US wont remain a global power of some sort... but that really has nothing to do with the quality of life and freedoms of it's citizens. Most great powers have not delivered commensurate greatness for the common people. The USSR had power... but it's people lived in abject poverty and misery, under the yoke of oppression and tyranny.

Britain was a great Empire... if you happened to live in the tiny ruling class and profited from it... most slaved at the coal face and were beaten down by the established monopolies...

It's no less doom saying to predict some sort of military confrontation with China... which would bring the world to the brink of nuclear war...

Bacevich simply lays out the flaws... and the fact that the path is unsustainable... he doesn't predict the apocalypse. If anything, he points to a better way of doing business... the way which was intended for the US at the beginning....

Fear mongering about how the US is beset by threats on all sides and must prepare for a all out War against its Economic partners seems to be the most negative POV...
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Re: Who would be your dictator?

Postby Scott Dolan » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:42 am

Felix wrote: (Actually, I heard a interview on free radio from Bacevich and he said the US will be the dominant world power throughout the 21st Century.)


There is a huge difference between stating a simple fact and celebrating it.

Nobody here denies what Bacevich is saying. It's just that some of us don't see any moral value in dominating the rest of the world.
Frankly, IMNSDHO this image of an "American Bin Laden" lurking abroad, sending waves of evil-doing freedom-haters to attack our shores with impunity while we wring our hands in good-goody impotence is just a bogey man designed to spook the timid into surrendering valuable freedoms in the name of an illusion of security. -BroSpin
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Re: Who would be your dictator?

Postby hettfield » Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:23 am

Scott Dolan wrote:
Felix wrote: (Actually, I heard a interview on free radio from Bacevich and he said the US will be the dominant world power throughout the 21st Century.)


There is a huge difference between stating a simple fact and celebrating it.

Nobody here denies what Bacevich is saying. It's just that some of us don't see any moral value in dominating the rest of the world.


AH! here is the crux of it all! Everyone worries about the US being the dominant world power without checking out what that means... as smitty mentioned, most world powers live like shit, and treat others like shit to the point of pissing everyone off and getting the proverbial shit beaten out of them.

Norway is not a world power, not even close... and they have the highest rated quality of life... Canada, Australia, Switzerland, Denmark, all have excellent living conditions for their citizens and are not world players. Some would argue that it's thanks to the US (switzerland is neutral), but it takes a lot to achieve what they have.

What I'm trying to say is, we don't need to be THE world power, just be in a position where the interests of our citizens are being upheld and the quality of life for our citizens is maintained or improved.

As for the Dictator...
    I would ask him to withdraw troops from most foreign bases (maybe leave one in Kuwait, another in Guam, someplace in Liberia, etc).
    Reduce alphabet agencies (do we need ATF and DEA when we have the FBI? do we need the NSA and countless intelligence agencies when we have the CIA?)
    Return responsibilities back to each Department (Agriculture, Defense, Health, Treasury) rather than agencies (EPA, IRA, CDC).
    Maintain a global market, but eliminate incentives to produce overseas and increase benefits to creating jobs and business in the US.
    Invest in nuclear and other technologies besides oil and coal.
    Flat tax.
    Legalize marihuana. Educate against drug abuse.
    Eliminate lobbyists and private campaign financing.

If I want all of that, who should I elect for Dictator?
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Power Wolves Beset Your Door... Hear Them Stalking."

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Re: Who would be your dictator?

Postby Felix » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:32 pm

Smitty-48 wrote:It's not so much that the US wont remain a global power of some sort... but that really has nothing to do with the quality of life and freedoms of it's citizens. Most great powers have not delivered commensurate greatness for the common people. The USSR had power... but it's people lived in abject poverty and misery, under the yoke of oppression and tyranny.

Britain was a great Empire... if you happened to live in the tiny ruling class and profited from it... most slaved at the coal face and were beaten down by the established monopolies...

It's no less doom saying to predict some sort of military confrontation with China... which would bring the world to the brink of nuclear war...

Bacevich simply lays out the flaws... and the fact that the path is unsustainable... he doesn't predict the apocalypse. If anything, he points to a better way of doing business... the way which was intended for the US at the beginning....

Fear mongering about how the US is beset by threats on all sides and must prepare for a all out War against its Economic partners seems to be the most negative POV...


Neither you nor I, or any of the "are you among the 144,000 crowd," know what our quality of life will be in the next 100 years. We can make certain projections, but the predicates for those projections are hotly contested and of limited value. Who knew in 1933 that Europe would commit suicide and the US would become the dominant economic power for the rest of the Century?

The USSR and GB are distinquishable from the USA for about a billion reasons, not the least being that GB WAS a DNA encoded empire ruled by aristocratic elites with fancy titles. Unlike the USA, the USSR had no traditions of a middle or artisan class and the peasants making up the majority of the citizenry were peasants under the Tsars as well and had only known misery.

I don't know anyone who advocates for a military confrontation with China. I don't. But I do advocate for a robust U.S. Navy and I do advocate for the current system of alliances preventing a country like China from dominating the East China Sea at the expenses of Taiwan and Japan, and ultimately, us.
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Re: Who would be your dictator?

Postby Felix » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:51 pm

Scott Dolan wrote:
Felix wrote: (Actually, I heard a interview on free radio from Bacevich and he said the US will be the dominant world power throughout the 21st Century.)


There is a huge difference between stating a simple fact and celebrating it.

Nobody here denies what Bacevich is saying. It's just that some of us don't see any moral value in dominating the rest of the world.


Well, that appears to be a distinction without much of a difference -- dominate you with a baton in my hand or dominate you with a huge grin.

No one I know is suggesting there is some moral value to "dominating" the world. We don't dominate the world. We don't get our way all the time in the UN. We don't get our way in trade disputes all of the time with our allies. We sure as hell don't get our way in trade disputes with China -- they are keeping the vlaue of their currency articifically low, which is devastating to us and our allies. We don't subordinate the world's systems of alliances and treaties to our advantage. We are powerful and the first among nations, but we are not an empire. Most Americans believe the US is a force for good in the world. I agree. If you think that makes me a neocon or an imperialist, that's your problem. I just don't think we are standing on the edge of the abyss.
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Re: Who would be your dictator?

Postby Scott Dolan » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:59 pm

Felix wrote:
No one I know is suggesting there is some moral value to "dominating" the world. We don't dominate the world.


Oh, I get it:


..if you believe, as I do, that despite the current economic problems, the United States will recover and that we will continue to be the dominant world power...


OK. :|
Frankly, IMNSDHO this image of an "American Bin Laden" lurking abroad, sending waves of evil-doing freedom-haters to attack our shores with impunity while we wring our hands in good-goody impotence is just a bogey man designed to spook the timid into surrendering valuable freedoms in the name of an illusion of security. -BroSpin
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Re: Who would be your dictator?

Postby Felix » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:09 pm

Scott Dolan wrote:
Felix wrote:
No one I know is suggesting there is some moral value to "dominating" the world. We don't dominate the world.


Oh, I get it:


..if you believe, as I do, that despite the current economic problems, the United States will recover and that we will continue to be the dominant world power...


OK. :|


I know Scotty, a little too nuanced "fer ya." Being the "dominant" world power does not mean ipso facto that you "dominate" the world. Let's try this -- The New York Yankees might have the best record in baseball in 2010 and is the most "dominant" team this year, but they not "dominate" the league -- after all, they lost 63 games out of about 156 games thus far.

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Re: Who would be your dictator?

Postby Occam » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:13 pm

I, for one, would like us to be MORE imperial. Just start taking whatever we could. Maybe if our government was stealing from other countries, they'd stop stealing from their own people so much.
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Re: Who would be your dictator?

Postby Scott Dolan » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:18 pm

Felix could get with that neocon program. Especially since he fully supports Obama's foreign policy, which is essentially that of the PNAC enacted under Bush.

Felix, why not help yourself to an English class to help you figure out when to use "the" and "a", and also to find out that they are not interchangeable.
Frankly, IMNSDHO this image of an "American Bin Laden" lurking abroad, sending waves of evil-doing freedom-haters to attack our shores with impunity while we wring our hands in good-goody impotence is just a bogey man designed to spook the timid into surrendering valuable freedoms in the name of an illusion of security. -BroSpin
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Re: Who would be your dictator?

Postby Dan » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:25 pm

Felix wrote:
I hope you can get Bacevich for one of your shows -- that would be interesting.


He was the guest way back on show #44. :wink:
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Re: Who would be your dictator?

Postby Felix » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:26 pm

Scott Dolan wrote:Felix could get with that neocon program. Especially since he fully supports Obama's foreign policy, which is essentially that of the PNAC enacted under Bush.

Felix, why not help yourself to an English class to help you figure out when to use "the" and "a", and also to find out that they are not interchangeable.


Scotty, completely flummoxed on the substance is now resorting to picayune distinctions between "the" and "a." Let's clear this up "fer ya fella."

The US is "the" dominant World power, but does not dominate "the" World.

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Re: Who would be your dictator?

Postby Felix » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:28 pm

Dan wrote:
Felix wrote:
I hope you can get Bacevich for one of your shows -- that would be interesting.


He was the guest way back on show #44. :wink:


That was pre-my listenership. I'll have to dig that episode out. It may be time for a new Bacevich interview given all that has occurred.
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Re: Who would be your dictator?

Postby Felix » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:34 pm

Occam wrote:I, for one, would like us to be MORE imperial. Just start taking whatever we could. Maybe if our government was stealing from other countries, they'd stop stealing from their own people so much.


I heard in an interview of Becevich that it has been estimated that if the rest of the world provided for their own "security," whatever that means, the yearly US defense spending would be $250 Billion, not $750 Billion a year. So, we are paying about $500 Billion a year for the privilge of being the dominant world power. I know that some, if not much of the $500 Billion is an economic stimulus plan for US corporations and universities and our economy unures some benefit. But that is still a lot of cheese. I hope we are "stealing" something form other countries to make up for the gap.
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Re: Who would be your dictator?

Postby Scott Dolan » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:38 pm

Felix wrote:
Scott Dolan wrote:Felix could get with that neocon program. Especially since he fully supports Obama's foreign policy, which is essentially that of the PNAC enacted under Bush.

Felix, why not help yourself to an English class to help you figure out when to use "the" and "a", and also to find out that they are not interchangeable.


Scotty, completely flummoxed on the substance is now resorting to picayune distinctions between "the" and "a." Let's clear this up "fer ya fella."

The US is "the" dominant World power, but does not dominate "the" World.

Felix, always glad to help.


Ah, shit talking children. It never grows old.

Of course, your avatar tells us everything we need to know about you.
Frankly, IMNSDHO this image of an "American Bin Laden" lurking abroad, sending waves of evil-doing freedom-haters to attack our shores with impunity while we wring our hands in good-goody impotence is just a bogey man designed to spook the timid into surrendering valuable freedoms in the name of an illusion of security. -BroSpin
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Re: Who would be your dictator?

Postby Felix » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:50 pm

Scott Dolan wrote:
Felix wrote:
Scott Dolan wrote:Felix could get with that neocon program. Especially since he fully supports Obama's foreign policy, which is essentially that of the PNAC enacted under Bush.

Felix, why not help yourself to an English class to help you figure out when to use "the" and "a", and also to find out that they are not interchangeable.


Scotty, completely flummoxed on the substance is now resorting to picayune distinctions between "the" and "a." Let's clear this up "fer ya fella."

The US is "the" dominant World power, but does not dominate "the" World.

Felix, always glad to help.


Ah, shit talking children. It never grows old.

Of course, your avatar tells us everything we need to know about you.


Scotty, still screaming at people to get off his lawn. But at least you have a sense of humor -- A Yoda with an iPod avatar is far more mature than an iconic science-fiction character from the best sci-fi novel since Dune. Did you get that Yoda avatar from the Cartoon Network?

Felix, never tires from calling out the kettles of the world who call the pots black.
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