Post subject: Re: Doctors to vaccine refusers: Go somewhere else
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:50 pm
Hetairoi
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:02 pm Posts: 5654 Location: Hell
BjornP wrote:
Atanamis wrote:
But that is still just a doctor not wanting to have to watch the kid die. Refusing to be the kids doctor doesn't make the kid any less likely to die from their parent's poor choices.
True. But doctors are still only human, after all. It could be a way of absolving oneself of future guilt. Not that I'd imagine they'd feel any less guilty if they learned the child did die after they banned them as patients. .
That's what I figure. The doctors are afraid of the future liability of keeping them as patients after failing to vaccinate the kids.
Post subject: Re: Doctors to vaccine refusers: Go somewhere else
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:53 pm
Satrap
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:23 pm Posts: 3087
Education won't do jack shit. When folks believe the blogs over the medical community, it's done. I've known a few women who wouldn't vaccinate their children, but came around because their school required it, albeit grudgingly. I guess the autism risk isn't worth home school.
Like I've said, as soon as they get a taste of what polio, meningitis, and diptheria can do all the soccer moms will be racing to get little Jayiden and Isabylla as many vaccines as possible.
_________________ "What's being a soldier like? It's 99% pure boredom, and 1% too exciting." - My Grandfather
Post subject: Re: Doctors to vaccine refusers: Go somewhere else
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:18 pm
Satrap
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:55 pm Posts: 3784
boethius wrote:
The Mad Zeppelineer wrote:
Fucking awesome. They should call social services and tell them about the neglect also.
Too far.
You think breaking up families and putting kids in foster care is the appropriate response because someone misguidedly listened to too much Jenny McCarthy and Oprah New-Ageism on this one issue (but are probably reasonable parents otherwise)? They aren't trying to hurt their kids; they think they are protecting them. Even if these parents are wrong on this issue, they are likely over protective on other issues and their kids, overall, far safer with their parents than in the foster system.
They are not just endangering their own children, they are potentially killing other people's children. A Jahovahs witness who denies their child blood transfusions should have their kid taken to safety. A parent that deliberately prevents their kid from getting protection from some of the worst diseases in the world should at the very least get a warning.
Post subject: Re: Doctors to vaccine refusers: Go somewhere else
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:21 pm
Hetairoi
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:02 pm Posts: 5654 Location: Hell
doc_loliday wrote:
Education won't do jack shit. When folks believe the blogs over the medical community, it's done. I've known a few women who wouldn't vaccinate their children, but came around because their school required it, albeit grudgingly. I guess the autism risk isn't worth home school.
It'll take a few kids getting these deadly diseases for parents to understand the value of vaccinations. That having been said, as long as 99% of the US population is vaccinated against a particular disease, the un-vaccinated ones should be relatively safe from things like polio.
Post subject: Re: Doctors to vaccine refusers: Go somewhere else
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:35 pm
Hetairoi
Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 7:33 pm Posts: 5673 Location: Clarksville, TN
Ahhhhh, stupid soccer moms listening to that idiot" Jenny" McCarthy
Autism is not caused by vaccines, it is a proven fact.
Jim should have smothered that idoit while she was sleeping.
:rant over
_________________ Kevin
The grateful man is a humble man. He has no illusions of his grandeur. He knows that bad things happen to good people. He knows how easily a rally can turn into a slump. He knows how much worse off many others are than he is. He understands the sacrifices others make on his behalf. And he deeply, deeply appreciates them.
“If it makes you have contempt for others: for an enemy, for the poor, for the rich, for the helpless, for the different. It’s not God you’re worshipping, it’s your own pathetic projection of omnipotence. But God is: the enemy, the poor, the rich, the helpless, the different. God is the other. All evil begins with this belief: that another’s existence is less precious than mine.” ― Tony Hendra, The Messiah of Morris Avenue
Post subject: Re: Doctors to vaccine refusers: Go somewhere else
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:41 pm
Hetairoi
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:02 pm Posts: 5654 Location: Hell
raistian77 wrote:
Autism is not caused by vaccines, it is a proven fact.
Jim should have smothered that idoit while she was sleeping.
I'm not sure if murder is a solution to that problem. Additionally, we don't know the true cause of the rise in autism (could be the vaccinations for all we know ... or our methods of evaluating autism). Unfortunately, many people have connected the statistical rise in rates of autism to vaccinations. I don't know enough, scientifically, to make an informed judgment. However, I do think it's foolish not to vaccinate children against known diseases.
On a different note, my personal opinion is that psychologists' methods of evaluating autism have changed. I think that the people who are being evaluated as "autistic" today are merely our geniuses, people who are relatively introverted yet have tremendous mental capacity. We could be killing off the next generation's Einstein for all we know. Treating such genius as an illness and dulling the edge of nature's sword with our "modern" drugs. Personally, I think it's a travesty and a crime against humanity.
Post subject: Re: Doctors to vaccine refusers: Go somewhere else
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:10 pm
Hetairoi
Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 7:33 pm Posts: 5673 Location: Clarksville, TN
navy62802 wrote:
raistian77 wrote:
Autism is not caused by vaccines, it is a proven fact.
Jim should have smothered that idoit while she was sleeping.
I'm not sure if murder is a solution to that problem. Additionally, we don't know the true cause of the rise in autism (could be the vaccinations for all we know ... or our methods of evaluating autism). Unfortunately, many people have connected the statistical rise in rates of autism to vaccinations. I don't know enough, scientifically, to make an informed judgment. However, I do think it's foolish not to vaccinate children against known diseases.
On a different note, my personal opinion is that psychologists' methods of evaluating autism have changed. I think that the people who are being evaluated as "autistic" today are merely our geniuses, people who are relatively introverted yet have tremendous mental capacity. We could be killing off the next generation's Einstein for all we know. Treating such genius as an illness and dulling the edge of nature's sword with our "modern" drugs. Personally, I think it's a travesty and a crime against humanity.
Autism is a genetic neuro disorder, it usually is detected about the same age as vaccines are administered leasing to an improper correlation.
The rise in Autism is actually due to the recent addition of it as a DSM entry. We no longer consider an autistic person just retarded or slow or stupid. The rise in Aspergers (also a recent entry) is due to self-diagnosis (it is a fad right now in teenagers)
My sources are tons and tons and tons of research as my son is Autistic.
BTW: you are correct, in that murder is not the answer. Due to personal reasons I highly detest that woman
that is why I marked rant over at the end
_________________ Kevin
The grateful man is a humble man. He has no illusions of his grandeur. He knows that bad things happen to good people. He knows how easily a rally can turn into a slump. He knows how much worse off many others are than he is. He understands the sacrifices others make on his behalf. And he deeply, deeply appreciates them.
“If it makes you have contempt for others: for an enemy, for the poor, for the rich, for the helpless, for the different. It’s not God you’re worshipping, it’s your own pathetic projection of omnipotence. But God is: the enemy, the poor, the rich, the helpless, the different. God is the other. All evil begins with this belief: that another’s existence is less precious than mine.” ― Tony Hendra, The Messiah of Morris Avenue
Post subject: Re: Doctors to vaccine refusers: Go somewhere else
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:32 pm
Hetairoi
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:02 pm Posts: 5654 Location: Hell
raistian77 wrote:
Autism is a genetic neuro disorder, it usually is detected about the same age as vaccines are administered leasing to an improper correlation.
The rise in Autism is actually due to the recent addition of it as a DSM entry. We no longer consider an autistic person just retarded or slow or stupid. The rise in Aspergers (also a recent entry) is due to self-diagnosis (it is a fad right now in teenagers)
My sources are tons and tons and tons of research as my son is Autistic.
BTW: you are correct, in that murder is not the answer. Due to personal reasons I highly detest that woman
that is why I marked rant over at the end
As I've already stated, I firmly believe the increased rates of Autism to be related to the method of diagnosis and the classification of patients. I think that this area of psychology is extremely under-researched. Under our current classification, Einstein, himself, would have been classified as Autistic. And I think this says alot about the diagnosis and the hubris of modern medicine. I fear that doctors are diagnosing children as autistic when it is precisely these kids who may one day become our most intelligent and ground-breaking scientists. I don't know what the cause of autism may be. But I think that in the larger context, doctors need to re-evaluate the criteria they are using to diagnose the condition. I think their misdiagnosis is leading to both misconceptions about the disease and to mistreatment.
Post subject: Re: Doctors to vaccine refusers: Go somewhere else
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:08 pm
Hetairoi
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:46 am Posts: 6748 Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Kolokol888 wrote:
I don't know the science behind the any of this but seriously why would you question the doctor? It is their job to know more than us!
Anyone with a brain would question their doctor at the very least. If human beings are infallible and fuck up doing other professions than what makes you think doctors don't occasionally make mistakes? Patients who listen to everything their doctor says and never ask any questions have an unhealthy level of trust in knowledgeable authority figures. They may know their shit the vast majority of the time but they are not infallible and shouldn't be treated as such by their patients.
Post subject: Re: Doctors to vaccine refusers: Go somewhere else
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:18 pm
Satrap
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:23 pm Posts: 3087
When a theory is proffered, peer scientists can opine. When a fraud's work is proven that's what he is, your argument is done. What bugs about non vaccinators is that the hard work of previous generations are shuffled off. Enough of these jerks do this and we can see outbreaks, leading to new strains. Again, no appreciation for the hard work from our elders and forefathers.
Very true Navy, starting this fall I start College for the first time (I waited way to long, but hell might as well get started) and am planning to go into this field of study) I personally believe autistics are mistreated by being over protected. I was not diagnosed till last year, and if I had been diagnosed earlier (no autism DSM entry back in the 70's) I probably would not have adapted so well.
_________________ Kevin
The grateful man is a humble man. He has no illusions of his grandeur. He knows that bad things happen to good people. He knows how easily a rally can turn into a slump. He knows how much worse off many others are than he is. He understands the sacrifices others make on his behalf. And he deeply, deeply appreciates them.
“If it makes you have contempt for others: for an enemy, for the poor, for the rich, for the helpless, for the different. It’s not God you’re worshipping, it’s your own pathetic projection of omnipotence. But God is: the enemy, the poor, the rich, the helpless, the different. God is the other. All evil begins with this belief: that another’s existence is less precious than mine.” ― Tony Hendra, The Messiah of Morris Avenue
Post subject: Re: Doctors to vaccine refusers: Go somewhere else
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:14 pm
Contributing Member
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 9:28 am Posts: 64 Location: Brisbane, AUS
Kolokol888 wrote:
I don't know the science behind the any of this but seriously why would you question the doctor? It is their job to know more than us!
You've obviously never encountered a lousy doctor or a pill-pusher. I had to argue with a doc who wanted to give me an antibiotic prescription for what he diagnosed as a viral infection. Even a marginally educated person should know that antibiotics won't touch a viral infection, just bacterial ones. I told him I wouldn't take it since I had a viral infection, I'd just go home and feel lousy for a few days. He called in the prescription anyway so I didn't fill it.
And doctors are not gods. Yeah, it IS their job to know more than us, but there are just as many lousy, dishonest, or plain stupid doctors as there are car mechanics, lawyers, tax attorneys, etc. It is YOUR job to question them if something doesn't seem right. You are are you only advocate and it's your responsibility to take care of yourself first and foremost.
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