I'm no chemical or demolition expert, but I do do lots of ceramics at around 2000 degrees..and I've seen and felt what a little fuel in a confined space can do..and it's pretty amazing.

To me, the truthers hurt their efforts by pushing the concept into the X files zone when they demand that the buildings were blown from another source...I just don't think that's true.

Those planes had sooo much weight, inertia, and fuel, and created such a huge fire inside a confined space that I have no problem seeing how they fell without an inside DEMO. All the weight on the damaged area from the upper sections would really have no choice but to fall due to structural failure. Buildings that big only stand because they are built to support themselves, once any of that support fails, the thing is going to fall. I don't even think it looks like a DEMO.

As for the folks onsite that heard "booms" in the basement, well no s*%t man, a freaking airliner just hit the building. shockwaves etc...would surely travel throughout the shafts etc...

Don't know why I posted this really, just something that was on my mind.

I really can’t say for certain what it is that’s going through their heads, but I’ve talked to a number of them, and most seem driven, at least subconsciously, by one of two factors.

Many don’t like a world where a hand-full of people living in a cave is some 3rd world dump can put together a plan that would hurt us that badly. We are AMARICA, the greatest country on earth, they are just a bunch of guys in a cave. If they could hurt us so easily, then damn near any one else could too. That is a scary world, and they look for excuses, any excuse for that not to be true.

The rest seem to fall into the category of wanting to “know the secret knowledge”
They think they’ve stumbled upon some great insight that the rest of haven’t grasped yet, and it makes them feel important, or a little special. They want to look at everyone else as a little slow, or gullible, it let’s them feel valuable.

These purely emotional factors tilt the logical playing field. Any bit of information that confirms their “gut feeling” is latched on to quickly, and anything that contradicts it is inspected far more thoroughly. Any contradictory information that has the slightest flaw in it is thrown out, while the deficiencies of confirmatory information are glossed over.

This Demolition from within story was really just the first coherent and plausible story that came out, that these people could latch on to. It gave them a framework to build off of. And with the internet it spread quickly, and anyone that was driven by one of the two factors above could easily latch onto it to explain the way they felt.

Lots of science but this explains well how and why the building collapsed

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/01 ... -0112.html

The buildings were actually designed to withstand the impact of a jetliner. What caused most of the problems was the fireball.
The building was designed so that if some of structural supports were knocked out on one side (say from the impact of an airplane) then the weight of the building could still be supported from the three other sides until repairs could be made. The structural steel (by code) had fire retardant blown onto it to prevent it from melting. The problem occurred when the fire retardant got blown away from the impact of the plane leaving the steel completely exposed to the kerosene fireball. Once the steel started to melt, it could no longer support the weight above it and the building collapses from the top down.

I have seen video where you can see clouds of dust coming off of each floor in a series, it's what the truthers are claiming as the detonations. That is actually the floor above crashing into the one below it (sending dust and debris into the air) and causing that floor in turn to collapse into the one below it.

Rationally, I think the jets brought them down, though as a fiction writer, I'd prefer it if there was something more to it, and that I think would be why a lot of people like to hang onto the idea; it's just exciting, basically just like what Vox Contra said.

It does look weird, and too much of a coincidence how they both fell the same way, within minutes of each other, after both remaining upright for so long, but those coincidences do happen, and they aren't two different buildings, they're clones of each other, and the vibrations and trauma of the first falling would have greatly compromised the second.

There's also building 7 that is like 'the smoking gun' to the theorists, but what their videos hardly ever show or mention are the heavy fires that were going on inside it, that were not being tended to, and that's what brought it down.

What I do like to take liberties on though, and let my imagination run wild, is not the coming down of the buildings, but the entire operation itself... Sorry, call me nuts, and I'm more than willing to be proven wrong, but I seriously don't think it was just a few guys in a cave, I think they were the more than willing scapegoats. It just seemed to work too well for it to not have inside help. The whole circumventing of NORAD, not once, but twice, and the non-matching engine fan at the pentagon, that apparently matched an A3 Skywarrior, not a 767 (757? Whatever plane it supposedly was). There are a lot of little discrepancies here and there that I just love, as they set the imagination alight.

Personally, I like the gold heist idea, and as a disclaimer, I'm just having fun here, this is all just straight out of my imagination, and I'm more than willing to be proven wrong in all areas. It is my job to do this stuff... but I like to think of it as a three-way between the building owners, members of the Military Industrial Complex, and odd military/administration people.

I remember seeing interviews with some firefighters who said when trying to get to the basement vaults, there were a heap of ambulances heading in and out, but when they themselves tried to get in, they were threatened to leave at gunpoint by armed guards. Now I haven't heard anything else on it since, but apparently there was up to $900 mil worth of gold and silver bullion in the vaults which apparently just vanished, said to have vapourised when the buildings came down. Now if this is true, then I know for certain that no one, NO ONE, would be just giving up on just shy of a billion in untraceable bullion, but it would be very easy to just say it was vapourised, claim the insurance, and melt it down for market.

So,

The owners of the towers pull an insurance scam, claiming both the insurance on the bullion, but also the towers themselves. They get ex-spec ops to do the dirty work of getting the bullion out (and possibly rig and blow the towers, I'll ask you to humour me on that, it's more Hollywood if they do), and use some of that untraceable bullion to pay them.

But they need a cover, so, they get a particular Pakistani General involved, and send him some money, and he indirectly gets in the ear of Osama Bin, letting him know "heeyy have ever thought of the towers? Symbol of Capitalism, you'd piss'em right off if you flew a couple of planes into them, what if we were able to divert NORAD for a moment?" Osama just goes apeshit, because it's like his dream come true, his ultimate strike back on the US, so the General sends him that 100k he apparently sent, and OBL sets off on his way to get a few lads into the US, and get them a few flight lessons. Now sure it doesn't seem like a few lessons would be enough, but whatever, Allah will be with them, and unbeknown to them, or OBL, they're not actually going to be flying the planes anyway.

Who profited the most in the long run from 911? The Military Industrial Complex, as 911 gave them the wars they need to profit. So, a few guys from various sectors of the MIC, rig up a couple of 757s to be flown by remote, using this fandangled new drone technology that's in the prototype phase. They also pull out one of these A3 Skywarriors that apparently had also been rigged months before to be flown remotely, to use that for the Pentagon.

911 comes, the lads storm the aircraft cabins with their box cutters, and low and behold, the planes are actually flying by themselves anyway... of course, Allah has taken control. NORAD is sent on a string of mock operations, so that when the planes arrive they have no idea, even the second time, and it all goes off without a hitch. The tower guys get paid, the operatives get paid (or killed), the General gets paid, the MIC have Xmas every day from then on, and OBL is in hog's heaven, as he has just pulled off a mutha, more than willing to take whatever credit he can get, and never question any of it at all... Inshallah.

I don't understand what the point would be. If you have bombs in the building, why fly a plane into it? If you flew a plane into it why would they need bombs?

Coz it's KOOL! LIKE US!!!



What I say, is when in doubt, look at who else is on your side. If you feel comfortable being associated with them, and think they would be the most likely candidates to be right, then you're probably okay.

Because the absence of evidence is considered evidence for conspiracy. Scientific method usually starts with a thesis, which is followed by analysis that includes relevant material that either speaks for or against your thesis, and ends with a conclusion that is based on the analysis.

Conspiracy theorists start with the conclusion and solely gather material that proves their point. They have no thesis or analysis, and their reading material is considered relevant only so far as it reinforces their conclusion, and if they cannot understand a scientific argument from an expert, or if an expert refutes their claims it gets either ignored or a part of a cover-up.

I hope that was a usable answer, although I did not answer specifically about 911 "truthers".

Secret Knowledge. Yeah.
I've that attitude a good deal on the net. It's a good tool for pumping up your self worth.
And there's the whole feeling that the World is run by Secret Evil Forces. Government has a hidden agenda to in some way manipulate and crush the will of its constituents.
(Well, it DOES have a bit of a desire to manipulate, but it's more for the trivial purpose of votes)
The New World Order, the Illuminati, the United Nations, etc.

Alot of the madness directed at Obama seems to have this at it's base.

agree with a lot of posters here, 9/11 truthers seem to put anything into their argument to make it work. It's how a conspiracy works; everything is part of the conspiracy. If the government did the attack, then why did they say Al Qaeda did it... and then invade Iraq lol. Why didn't they just say Saddam Hussein did it? Then they say; "why was their no video of the Pentagon attack!!" the Pentagon has only released a certain few documents on the Vietnam War until NOW, they don't even let you know how many rolls of toilet paper they buy, wtf makes you think they want to show you where all their security cameras are?

My opinion: It was Al Qaeda, and it was done by some everyday Muslim Extremists that yes, have trained in some caves. Get use to it, everything we thought was true about how jet fighters would be deployed in an instant if there were a threat, how safe we are, etc. was all BS. Our government got a letter grade of an F that day, plain and simple. As much as I despise Al Qaeda they knew when and where to hit us, and they succeed 100%, and it was all done with some box knives and flying lessons.

At one time they said the Titanic was unsinkable... well, you know how that ended too.

yeah, one thing that sticks out for me in all these 9/11 theories is the idea that the government would fake this MASSIVE event costing thousands of american lives and then vilify islam and use it as justification for the war on terror. it makes no sense to me and can be easily dismantled using logic

what good have we gained from the war on terror?

why on earth would we even want to go through invading AFGHANSTAN for no legitimate reason? anyone with military experience can see that place is nothing short of a nightmare for a foreign army. it's called the 'graveyard of empires' for a reason.

and if 9/11 was some sort of justification for iraq then why make up the story of WMDs in Iraq? correct me if i'm wrong but isn't 'Iraq has acquired WMDs' what the bush adminstration told the world? he didn't say 'Iraq is responsible for 9/11'.

and the idea that Iraq was planned years in advance is ABSURD, when you know the details of what happened in the lead up of the invasion and the bone-headed decisions the Bush administration made that could've easily been avoided with more foresight.

In fact, that's the REAL CONSPIRACY that's slapping everyone right in the face but no one is really that outraged about the fact that the Bush Administration CLEARLY used the fake WMD scare to decieve the public.

Hmm... Nothing in there about Building 7? The one that was an obvious controlled demolition? What a shocker! fucking joke would be funny if the implications weren't what they are

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv7BImVvEyk


WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE TO YOU?

Looks more and more like the whole thing was an American Reichstag Fire to me. Especially when you add in hindsight, the loss if civil liberties and naked body scanners"For security" but basic border security is ignored making the security point mute.

FUCK YOU SHEEPLE you deserve to be slaves don't fucking take me with you.