Course of Empire question

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Course of Empire question

Postby dbhstockton » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:18 pm

I'm very concerned for our American Republic. The brand of uniquely American reactionism represented by the Tea party have always been a strain our political culture, but it's starting to feel like a watershed is coming; these cretins can finally have their moment.

Tell me I'm wrong. Are we headed towards something dark? It feels like 2+2=5 territory sometimes.

I was born in the late seventies, but I have a history degree. So I think I have enough perspective to understand that, to some extent, the world always appears to be coming apart at the seams. Perhaps someone with a little more personal experience in the world would have a broader perspective. Someone who lived through the upheavals of the sixties, etc.

Maybe it's the fact that Dan had been discussing the Death Throes of the Republic for well over a year...In that series, Dan did such a wonderful job of illustrating universal principals that affect all civilizations alongside the traits unique to Rome. An almost organic sense that the the very strengths that frame one's society and lead to its success will inevitably lead to an inability to adapt...or something like that...
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Re: Course of Empire question

Postby Smitty-48 » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:26 pm

dbhstockton wrote:I'm very concerned for our American Republic. The brand of uniquely American reactionism represented by the Tea party have always been a strain our political culture, but it's starting to feel like a watershed is coming; these cretins can finally have their moment.

Tell me I'm wrong. Are we headed towards something dark? It feels like 2+2=5 territory sometimes.

I was born in the late seventies, but I have a history degree. So I think I have enough perspective to understand that, to some extent, the world always appears to be coming apart at the seams. Perhaps someone with a little more personal experience in the world would have a broader perspective. Someone who lived through the upheavals of the sixties, etc.

Maybe it's the fact that Dan had been discussing the Death Throes of the Republic for well over a year...In that series, Dan did such a wonderful job of illustrating universal principals that affect all civilizations alongside the traits unique to Rome. An almost organic sense that the the very strengths that frame one's society and lead to its success will inevitably lead to an inability to adapt...or something like that...



It's always been like this.

Nothing worse than the height of the Cold War, or the Great Depression.

Can you really get much scarier than the Cuban Missile Crisis?
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Re: Course of Empire question

Postby Harry K » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:32 pm

Too young to understand the Cold War until Reagan was in office. Dominated the nightly news for a decade.

Didn't hurt that the Soviet top men dropped like flies.
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Re: Course of Empire question

Postby Smitty-48 » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:36 pm

Harry K wrote:Too young to understand the Cold War until Reagan was in office. Dominated the nightly news for a decade.

Didn't hurt that the Soviet top men dropped like flies.


That was post Detente. In the late fifties and early sixties it was hot as a pistol. With above ground, underwater and space nuclear tests, on both sides, every other day.

Serious sabre rattling. Eyeball to eyeball.
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Re: Course of Empire question

Postby Harry K » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:49 pm

And a banging of the shoe. Democratic Republics vs. People's Republics. Massive spying and a wall dividing a country.

My grandmother still has a bomb shelter, although I would open any of the canned food.
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Re: Course of Empire question

Postby Waleis » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:27 am

America is already an Inverted Totalitarian state. It's self perpetuating, and virtually no mechanisms exist to dismantle it. I keep hearing about impending doom, foreboding, etc. but we've already reached the penultimate position. The great disaster is already here, and we've been living through it for 50 years. Further crises will only strengthen our rulers.
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Re: Course of Empire question

Postby dbhstockton » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:07 am

Yeah, the sense of dread I'm feeling is not necessarily the apocalyptic, extinction-level brand. The Great Depression is perhaps more analogous: the sense that the bubble has burst and all our happy collective narratives are suddenly strikingly useless to guide us.

The American nation will most likely endure, but as yet another empire on the stage of history. The trappings of the old republican experiment will remain, but real power will be concentrated in the hands of a vampiric elite, which cannot help but become more isolated, decadent and ultimately depraved.
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Re: Course of Empire question

Postby Waleis » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:13 am

dbhstockton wrote: The trappings of the old republican experiment will remain, but real power will be concentrated in the hands of a vampiric elite, which cannot help but become more isolated, decadent and ultimately depraved.

You use future tense in this post, when you should be using present tense.
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Re: Course of Empire question

Postby Dr. Strangelove » Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:45 pm

The 1980s were the most dangerous. At least two incidents almost triggered a nuclear war. Not a 1950s or 1960s style nuclear war but with ICBMs and unleashing the largest stockpile of nuclear warheads in all history. If there ever was a time to be scared, it was then.

I think what is happening right now is nothing like those days. Our threat is internal. You all know what I think is coming. If only it were just a Soviet Union on the other side of the pond. This is more insidious.
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Re: Course of Empire question

Postby Gregg » Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:26 pm

dbhstockton wrote:I'm very concerned for our American Republic. The brand of uniquely American reactionism represented by the Tea party have always been a strain our political culture, but it's starting to feel like a watershed is coming; these cretins can finally have their moment.

Tell me I'm wrong. Are we headed towards something dark? It feels like 2+2=5 territory sometimes.

I was born in the late seventies, but I have a history degree. So I think I have enough perspective to understand that, to some extent, the world always appears to be coming apart at the seams. Perhaps someone with a little more personal experience in the world would have a broader perspective. Someone who lived through the upheavals of the sixties, etc.

Maybe it's the fact that Dan had been discussing the Death Throes of the Republic for well over a year...In that series, Dan did such a wonderful job of illustrating universal principals that affect all civilizations alongside the traits unique to Rome. An almost organic sense that the the very strengths that frame one's society and lead to its success will inevitably lead to an inability to adapt...or something like that...


The Tea Party is just a political movement wanting to limit the power of government and protect individual liberty from government predation. You know like the Founding Fathers intended when they wrote the Constitution. Only the political class and it's cronies call Tea Party people "cretins.". But, only cretins would allow the political class and their cronies have unlimited power through the federal government.

You are wrong. The United States is not headed for something dark. It will be the pre-eminent power, economically and militarily, for at least another 100 years. And, the new political movement will roll back big-government...at least for a while.

If you have lived during the 1970s through today then you know that the world always been presented as about to come apart at the seams. My guess is that you read too many newspapers and news magazines and listen to too many news analysis programs. They drive up readership, listenership, and viewership by exaggerating news stories. Hell, even Dan does that. Remember how the world was going to come to an end in year 2000....the Y2K scare...was just a fraud so the news media and IT people could make some more money.

My advice is to terminate your subscriptions to the New York Times, The Economist, Mother Jones, and The Nation. Then, stop listening to talk radio and don't watch any news analysis reports. Also, don't read any books by Keith Olbermann, Al Gore, Rachel Maddow, etc. Keep listening to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History and Common Sense podcasts, but have an adult beverage when doing so. And, enjoy life for a while. Week by week, you will see that the world continues pretty much as before. Wait two years then read and listen to all the stuff that you were before and you will find out that the world is about to end again. Then take another two years off. Then, sign up for all those news analysis programs again. After a while, you will see the pattern and realize that is just how they sell newspapers, news magazines, and news programs.

But, most of all quit worrying about the world. The world does not want to be saved. And, it is not about to self destruct no matter Time or Newsweek says.
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Re: Course of Empire question

Postby Gregg » Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:32 pm

dbhstockton wrote:Maybe it's the fact that Dan had been discussing the Death Throes of the Republic for well over a year...In that series, Dan did such a wonderful job of illustrating universal principals that affect all civilizations alongside the traits unique to Rome. An almost organic sense that the the very strengths that frame one's society and lead to its success will inevitably lead to an inability to adapt...or something like that...


Wasn't Death Throes of the Republic an awesome series of podcasts! I just loved them! And, I am eagerly awaiting the next Hardcore History podcast. These are simply the best.
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Re: Course of Empire question

Postby The Mad Zeppelineer » Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:39 pm

Dr. Strangelove wrote: At least two incidents almost triggered a nuclear war.



Which incidents? I was 3 when the 80s ended and Ive heard very little about Cuban missile crisis' in that decade....
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Re: Course of Empire question

Postby Smitty-48 » Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:48 pm

The Mad Zeppelineer wrote:
Dr. Strangelove wrote: At least two incidents almost triggered a nuclear war.



Which incidents? I was 3 when the 80s ended and Ive heard very little about Cuban missile crisis' in that decade....


September 26th, 1983. C*nt hair away from "Planet of the Apes".
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Re: Course of Empire question

Postby Dr. Strangelove » Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:49 pm

1. Oko

2. Able Archer




Last edited by Dr. Strangelove on Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Course of Empire question

Postby Gregg » Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:50 pm

Dr. Strangelove wrote:The 1980s were the most dangerous. At least two incidents almost triggered a nuclear war. Not a 1950s or 1960s style nuclear war but with ICBMs and unleashing the largest stockpile of nuclear warheads in all history. If there ever was a time to be scared, it was then.

I think what is happening right now is nothing like those days. Our threat is internal. You all know what I think is coming. If only it were just a Soviet Union on the other side of the pond. This is more insidious.


Doc, the 1980s were less dangerous than the 1960s. The Soviets feared and respected President Reagan, while they believed (mistakenly) that President Kennedy was a kid that could be pushed around. And, it is always underestimating an opponent that leads to war. And, the Soviets clearly did that with Kennedy.
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