What if Japan attacked Russia

Discuss the "What If's" of historical events.

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Re: What if Japan attacked Russia

Postby exposno1 » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:47 pm

T2theC wrote:
Lonestar wrote:
larry1617 wrote:Well, the Japanese did develop an A bomb in the war and tested it. It may seem crazy, but I guess I am a pesi-optimist


No, they didn't.


Where does larry1617 get this stuff from?

I have significant doubts about this being true, but it's been conjectured: Disputed reports about the nuclear program in Konan in 1945
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Re: What if Japan attacked Russia

Postby Lonestar » Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:08 pm

T2theC wrote:
Where does larry1617 get this stuff from?


Probably from The History Channel.

Overy's Why the Allies Won talks about the Axis nuclear weapons program. It's hilarious in the extreme to suggest the Japanese program(which told it's lead physicist, a dude who studied under Bohr, that "no, you don't need that much U-235 to make a bomb, use conventional explosives for the difference") could get around to making a device.
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Re: What if Japan attacked Russia

Postby larry1617 » Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:10 pm

I did hear this on the History Channel, and considering. It probably isn't true, but the Japanese were developing one. The History Channel is starting to look like the National Enquirer.
"So let us regard this as settled: what is morally wrong can never be advantageous, even when it enables you to make some gain that you believe to be to your advantage. The mere act of believing that some wrongful course of action constitutes an advantage is pernicious." ~Marcus Tullius Cicero
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Re: What if Japan attacked Russia

Postby Lonestar » Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:16 pm

larry1617 wrote:I did hear this on the History Channel, and considering. It probably isn't true, but the Japanese were developing one. The History Channel is starting to look like the National Enquirer.



You probably shouldn't have your primary history source be THC. Any television network that presents Bigfoot, ghosts, and the Loch Ness Monster as really existing(with the one "skeptic" given 2 minutes time compared to the 45 minutes of true believers) should be treated with a healthy degree of skepticism.

As for the Japanese bomb program, so? They were years and years behind the German program, much less the American one(in fact the Western Allies had assumed that the Germans were ahead of them for much of the war).
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Re: What if Japan attacked Russia

Postby larry1617 » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:51 pm

That is true , but they did have a idea of nuclear power.
"So let us regard this as settled: what is morally wrong can never be advantageous, even when it enables you to make some gain that you believe to be to your advantage. The mere act of believing that some wrongful course of action constitutes an advantage is pernicious." ~Marcus Tullius Cicero
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Re: What if Japan attacked Russia

Postby Lonestar » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:35 am

larry1617 wrote:That is true , but they did have a idea of nuclear power.



So did the Italians. What's your point?
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Re: What if Japan attacked Russia

Postby T2theC » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:43 am

I'm amazed the History Channel can still use the word 'History' in it's title. :roll:
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Re: What if Japan attacked Russia

Postby navy62802 » Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:03 pm

larry1617 wrote:That is a very interesting idea, considering it would be the Germans, Russians, U.S, and Britain would all have had a two front war history may have been drastically changed if that ,in fact did happen. Might I also add the U.S. were the people in modern time to win a two front war.


Excuse my ignorance, but which 2-front war did the US win?
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Re: What if Japan attacked Russia

Postby direwolf » Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:33 am

Coupla thoughts:

Why the hell DID Japan decide to attack Pearl Harbor and not Russia? This has always baffled me!?!?

Also, the battle with Russia was in 1939, and Japan lost more because of tactical failures than anything else, although admitedly they probably would've STILL lost if the generals in said battle were military geniuses, for several reasons. This is depicted brilliantly in Murakami's "The Wind Up Bird Chronicle," albeit fiction.

And finally, Siberia is an EXTREMELY attractive piece of conquest, especially for a tiny geographical island nation with a massive population. The natural resources in Siberia are HUGE. Fishing and timber alone, not to mention oil reserves, would be huge for Japan, or anyone else for that matter.
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Re: What if Japan attacked Russia

Postby Eustace » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:46 am

Well you've just sort of answered the main part of your question there - Japan did attack Russia, it went wrong, and they made an agreement of a sort, like Kaizen was saying.

Second thing Japan probably would have liked Siberia, but it would have messed up their 'Co-prosperity spere' aims (Since Siberia is quite a distance from South East Asia, the part they seemed to think they should be in charge of) and it'd be very VERY hard to hold onto. It's not a coincidence that the last person who tried to create a country in the area, Baron Ungern Sternberg, was completely mad. He tried it back in 1921 during the Russian Civil War, mainly in Mongolia but he made some land grabs in Siberia as well. The Reds taught him a bit of a lesson for trying that one out. Last thing, yes the timber etc would have been useful, but the other natural treasures of Siberia, ie the oil and the gold, would have been impossible to get to then, as they still are even now I think?

Add to that the fact that Japan's 'blitzkriegs' generally happened over much smaller areas (The Malay peninsular, for eg), then figure in just how far it is from, say, Manchuria to Siberia, take into account Siberian weather which the Japanese weren't equipped to deal with at the time, and bear in mind that Japan was mainly interested in oil... and I reckon we're covered! ;)
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Re: What if Japan attacked Russia

Postby evil muppet » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:14 pm

They fought a war in 1904-1905 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Japanese_War The Japanese won.

The Japanese had two option in the late 1930s.
Strike north against the Soviets http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Strike_Group
or strike south against the Americans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strike_South_Group

There was two battles fought between the Soviets and Japanese in 1939. The Japanese got spanked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lake_Khasan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Halhin_Gol

It was the defeat at the second battle that caused the Japanese to decide against attacking Russia when the Germans invaded and instead attack south.
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Re: What if Japan attacked Russia

Postby Belisarius » Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:56 pm

Isnt it true that either towards the end of WW2 or after, Russia had designs on Japan and it was only with British or American intervention that they were stopped? Otherwise we would have had the same situation in Japan as we do have in Korea now. i.e a communist north influenced by Russia/China and democratic south influenced by the west
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Re: What if Japan attacked Russia

Postby Lars » Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:19 pm

Makes little sense to me. If the Japanese did attack Russia, the Russians could just support the Chinese that were fighting back at that time. There were millions of Chinese eager to fight the Japanese with swords and handguns if not pitchforks. With a minimum supply of proper guns and ammunition the Japanese would be finished very soon.
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Re: What if Japan attacked Russia

Postby dbhstockton » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:18 pm

YSH, have you been playing Axis and Allies?
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Re: What if Japan attacked Russia

Postby ForScience! » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:26 pm

navy62802 wrote:
larry1617 wrote:That is a very interesting idea, considering it would be the Germans, Russians, U.S, and Britain would all have had a two front war history may have been drastically changed if that ,in fact did happen. Might I also add the U.S. were the people in modern time to win a two front war.


Excuse my ignorance, but which 2-front war did the US win?


Well WW2. We fought simultaneously on the Pacific and European Theaters.
Oh not again...
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