What happened to American engineering and architecture?

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Re: What happened to American engineering and architecture?

Postby audadvnc » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:42 pm

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Re: What happened to American engineering and architecture?

Postby Quasigriz » Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:23 pm

What's the point of building some huge structure in the States, anyways? Urban property is expensive, the workers are expensive, the laws are restrictive, and the investors are limited. You can easily build skyscrapers in the middle east with loads of cash that don't benefit the people when you already own all of Ferrari's current models and colors. Slave labor is cheap, ask the Pharos.

Enjoy your time in the penthouse bar, drinking tea and watching walking blankets.

The US is in a decline. We are satisfied with slab bridges and bland rectangular buildings. :shakinghead:

Oh, and the last great American cars was the GT40 and Shelby Cobra back in the 60s. Le Mans pwned!

Plastics and fuel standards (along with stagnate wage increases, see OWS thread-splosion) killed American cars.

Crap standards killed American cars.

Manufacturing inefficiencies killed American cars.
"Sales are dropping, we could use crap materials and designs, or become more efficient and emphasize quality...Plastics and fiberboard anyone?"

Complete lack of consideration for aesthetic design killed American cars.

Americans want things fast and cheap.
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Re: What happened to American engineering and architecture?

Postby Dr. Strangelove » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:01 pm

We still are kicking ass in engineering and design. What the hell do you people think you are using to read this? Did you listen to your iPod today at work? Going somewhere this weekend? That GPS navigation system in your car might come in handy.


Even though corporations and banks have brought us to an economic disaster, we STILL remain the most innovative and productive nation on Earth. It's just that all of this free trade and rabid free market nonsense is unsustainable.

If we lost every last major corporation this month, things would be rough for a while, but would build back up. It might even be for the better. These fuckers are like gangrene to our social and economic vitality.

It's not really the money that matters. That's illusory. It's not the corporation. They come and go. It's the people. It's the workers. The engineers. The scientists. The designers. We are not losing them at a very large pace (yet). Corporations have stabbed us in the back for profit and left our factories and corporate campuses lie fallow. Getting back to productivity (for now) is as simple as putting people to work. You do that by ending ridiculously suicidal free trade laws, and repealing the most abusive laws against consumers and workers.
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Re: What happened to American engineering and architecture?

Postby Quasigriz » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:27 pm

Perhaps I am not as keep on the new American motto as you:
"Designed in California Assembled in China"
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Re: What happened to American engineering and architecture?

Postby Dr. Strangelove » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:34 pm

I don't like it either, but it does illustrate the fact. If they could offshore design and engineering to dirt cheap nations, that's what they would do. But thus far only a few nations keep up with American engineering and innovation. The ones that come to mind are Japan and Germany. But if you look at it on a per capita basis, I think Sweden and Israel come out just behind us. Russia is not too far behind either. If they ever get their shit together, they could possibly take a lead against us again.
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Re: What happened to American engineering and architecture?

Postby lakepsailor » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:37 pm

Dr. Strangelove wrote:I don't like it either, but it does illustrate the fact. If they could offshore design and engineering to dirt cheap nations, that's what they would do. But thus far only a few nations keep up with American engineering and innovation. The ones that come to mind are Japan and Germany. But if you look at it on a per capita basis, I think Sweden and Israel come out just behind us. Russia is not too far behind either. If they ever get their shit together, they could possibly take a lead against us again.


If Russia gets its shit together it'd be the best thing to happen to Europe in about 150 years. The country has the people and resources to kick off a second Renaissance.

Won't happen, alas.
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Re: What happened to American engineering and architecture?

Postby MaDuce » Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:27 am

What happened is we're turning out more English and theater and political science and sociology and psychology majors than engineering majors.
"Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary." - H.L. Mencken
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Re: What happened to American engineering and architecture?

Postby kabuki » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:22 am

MaDuce wrote:What happened is we're turning out more English and theater and political science and sociology and psychology majors than engineering majors.


why not? classes are easier, pay isn't much worse, jobs are more numerous and stable
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Re: What happened to American engineering and architecture?

Postby MaDuce » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:18 am

Numerous and stable jobs for English, theater, sociology and psychology majors? Please explain. I'll need one in about three years.
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Re: What happened to American engineering and architecture?

Postby boethius » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:25 am

kabuki wrote:
MaDuce wrote:What happened is we're turning out more English and theater and political science and sociology and psychology majors than engineering majors.


why not? classes are easier, pay isn't much worse, jobs are more numerous and stable

Huh? You have not been a 20-something liberal arts major looking for a job during the past couple of years.

The only liberal arts majors who have a shot at "plentiful" high paying jobs are those from top-5 colleges who can be recruited to consulting companies and I-banks: a liberal arts major from Harvard/Yale/Princeton or Williams/Amherst/Swarthmore can get a consulting job at places like Bain, Anderson, etc. right out of undergrad.

Liberal arts major from a school not in the top 5 or 10 can either flip burgers or go to law school (and even that is a crap shoot unless you go to a top-20 lawschool).
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Re: What happened to American engineering and architecture?

Postby kabuki » Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:21 am

boethius wrote:
kabuki wrote:
MaDuce wrote:What happened is we're turning out more English and theater and political science and sociology and psychology majors than engineering majors.


why not? classes are easier, pay isn't much worse, jobs are more numerous and stable

Huh? You have not been a 20-something liberal arts major looking for a job during the past couple of years.

The only liberal arts majors who have a shot at "plentiful" high paying jobs are those from top-5 colleges who can be recruited to consulting companies and I-banks: a liberal arts major from Harvard/Yale/Princeton or Williams/Amherst/Swarthmore can get a consulting job at places like Bain, Anderson, etc. right out of undergrad.

Liberal arts major from a school not in the top 5 or 10 can either flip burgers or go to law school (and even that is a crap shoot unless you go to a top-20 lawschool).


What I meant was that even with an Engineering degree jobs aren't plentiful. Corporations seem to love giving out as many H2Bs as they can. You don't need a lot of engineers when nothing is made here.
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Re: What happened to American engineering and architecture?

Postby Tyrius » Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:44 am

Lie Seeking Missle wrote:Tallest 9 buildings in the world were build in 1998 or later.
Willis Tower is 10th tallest in the World built in 1974.


Building the tallest skyscraper in the world is nothing more than a dick measuring contest. I'm happy to to see the US NOT partaking in such idiocy. The big Willie (sears tower) is already tall enough and sways so much in the wind that people who work on the top levels have actually experience motion sickness. So, if that building is already tall enough to cause problems to people inhabiting it why would we want to go taller? That doesn't even include the massive cost to build that high which is rarely ever recouped. It's much more cost effective to build 2 normal skyscrapers than to try and build 1 that is the tallest in the world.
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Re: What happened to American engineering and architecture?

Postby boethius » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:15 am

Good article on why we need manufacturing back in America in addition to the engineering:
http://www.pythagoreanism.com/buy-american-good-america-demonstration-local-economics/
Everyone knows that energy independence is an important issue, but manufacturing independence is equally important, yet relatively undiscussed. Factories don’t just build themselves overnight. The US is uniquely positioned to be able to convert to an entirely robotics-based manufacturing sector, manufacturing everything we need within our own borders using advances in technology that are within our grasp. This goes deeper than consumerism, because as technology grows increasingly fast, nations with the ability to quickly construct large standing armies are far more powerful than nations with large standing armies. We need a vastly downsized military, but the ability to build it back up tenfold on a moment’s notice. The money we save on military spending will swing the doors wide for our own society’s investment in robotic manufacturing technology. Think I’m crazy? Check this out – the technology is here. We just need an entity to step up with the resources to implement it on a large scale. Not only that, but there may be brewing a global manufacturing race, similar to the space race or nuke building frenzy – who can build robots the fastest?
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