NSA review panel - Strip powers to collect phone data

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NSA review panel - Strip powers to collect phone data

Postby DrYouth » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:43 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/18/nsa-bulk-collection-phone-date-obama-review-panel

Barack Obama will read the report over the holidays before deciding which recommendations he will choose to accept. Photograph: Zhang Jun/Xinhua/Corbis
The National Security Agency should be banned from attempting to undermine the security of the internet and stripped of its power to collect telephone records in bulk, a White House review panel recommended on Wednesday.

In a 300-page report prepared for President Obama, the panel made 46 recommendations, including that the authority for spying on foreign leaders should be granted at a higher level than at present.


:popcorn:
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Re: NSA review panel - Strip powers to collect phone data

Postby nmoore63 » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:31 pm

Change is impossible until its inevitable.
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Re: NSA review panel - Strip powers to collect phone data

Postby Montana_Zag » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:43 pm

I wonder if Obama will somehow use the panel's recommendations to head off the court proceedings about the NSA program's constitutionality: trim some unnecessary fat off the program, but in such a way that the program is miraculously "within the limits of the Constitution".

And we'd likely never know. The USIC has been working hard to close ranks and ferret out any future "Snowdens". It's a longshot that anyone blows the whistle again any time soon, given the current climate of suspicion; the USIC could do whatever it wants, if it chose to.
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Re: NSA review panel - Strip powers to collect phone data

Postby Quasigriz » Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:08 am

Full report: http://m.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/f ... report.pdf


And for the realist/cynic: http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-s ... ready-has/
How we know Obama will ignore his NSA review group: He already has
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Re: NSA review panel - Strip powers to collect phone data

Postby DrYouth » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:53 pm

So who will deliver for us the credible "coles notes" version of that beast.
:?:
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Re: NSA review panel - Strip powers to collect phone data

Postby nmoore63 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:09 pm

DrYouth wrote:So who will deliver for us the credible "coles notes" version of that beast.
:?:

I read the Copenhagen treaty thing... I am interesting in this subject, I already read all the 46 recommendations... there's at least a chance I will read it. If I do, I will take notes.
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Re: NSA review panel - Strip powers to collect phone data

Postby Quasigriz » Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:28 pm

nmoore63 wrote:
DrYouth wrote:So who will deliver for us the credible "coles notes" version of that beast.
:?:

I read the Copenhagen treaty thing... I am interesting in this subject, I already read all the 46 recommendations... there's at least a chance I will read it. If I do, I will take notes.

The chance of you reading it, Nick, is about 100% greater than the chance of any of it getting implemented. :blushing:
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Re: NSA review panel - Strip powers to collect phone data

Postby Smitty-48 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:43 pm

DrYouth wrote:So who will deliver for us the credible "coles notes" version of that beast.
:?:


It's actually pretty good reading, they are recommending pretty significant changes, such as treating all non-US persons the same as US persons unless there is a specific national security related reason to target them, civilian director for the NSA, metadata to be accesible to the government if needed, but held by a "private third party", only about half way through but it's a pretty quick read actually, not that much legalese or jargon, pretty much in layman's terms throughout. Big print too, so it's not as long as it looks.

Man, if they adopt even half of this stuff, it's a whole new NSA, on the other hand, get ready for a "National Telephony Database Corporation" to store all the metadata, basically privatize the UDC at Bluffdale or something like that...

All in all, the central thrust is basically telling the civilian authority to get off their asses and quit giving the NIC vague instructions with broad room for interpretation and rather fill in the blanks with detailed parameters for them to follow; "Go back and rewrite FISA and TPA with the checks and balances that should have been written into them in the first place."
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Re: NSA review panel - Strip powers to collect phone data

Postby DrYouth » Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:35 pm

Smitty-48 wrote:Man, if they adopt even half of this stuff, it's a whole new NSA.

So is this it's Achilles heel?
Maybe the NSA doesn't want to be a whole new NSA.
Or maybe it wants direction. Like the rebellious toddler that actually want its parents to man up and set some limits.
Very few rebellious toddlers realize that they want this though.
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Re: NSA review panel - Strip powers to collect phone data

Postby Smitty-48 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:39 pm

DrYouth wrote:
Smitty-48 wrote:Man, if they adopt even half of this stuff, it's a whole new NSA.

So is this it's Achilles heel?
Maybe the NSA doesn't want to be a whole new NSA.
Or maybe it wants direction. Like the rebellious toddler that actually want its parents to man up and set some limits.
Very few rebellious toddlers realize that they want this though.


Nah, they don't care, they'll do whatever they are told to do, they don't make policy, they are just an instrument of policy, give them their marching orders and they will obey; just make sure those orders are explicit, detailed and comprehensive, so there is no confusion or lack of clarity as to what it is you want. They didn't write FISA and TPA, congress did. Read the report, absolutely everything that people want, every single issue people are complaining about, is addressed in that report, it's all available to you, somebody just has to sign it into law. There's nothing in there that the NSA can't work with.

I mean, I'm an Intelligence Hawk of Hawk's, and I don't have any problems with it. All it would actually do is relieve them of the burden of perceived illegitimacy and refocus them on what they want to be doing anyways. I'm sure NSA would love to have the clarity of purpose and detailed comprehensive legal framework to operate within, nobody in the military likes nebulous orders and mission creep, but those things don't emanate from the military, the civilian authorities just refuse to get off their asses and lead. Too busy fighting the culture war to bother. If American's can't put their idiot culture war aside for five minutes to put this into place, I have no sympathy for them. They'll get what they deserve.

Go ahead and read it; it's as if Dan Carlin himself wrote that report.
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Re: NSA review panel - Strip powers to collect phone data

Postby DrYouth » Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:54 pm

I see where you're coming from.

These guys follow orders.

If the orders are vague they err on the side of doing their job, as opposed to not doing it.

Kinda makes sense.

So why is Griz so pessimistic that these recommendations will get acted on?

Is it that nobody wants to be the one that called off the dogs in fear they will get blamed if something is missed?

Or is it more about giving up power and control?

Or maybe, just maybe will this actually get acted on?

:popcorn: :popcorn:
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Re: NSA review panel - Strip powers to collect phone data

Postby navy62802 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:00 pm

Nothing is going to change. Even if Congress decided to grow some balls and make a statement, the NSA is going to continue what they've been doing for decades. This is not a new phenomenon. The NSA has been doing this shit since at least 1983 when Bamford first published The Puzzle Palace. If you think that some legal court somewhere is going to stop this beast, you are poorly naive and mistaken. The NSA will continue to do what it does regardless of written law. The only thing that will stop the NSA is a full dismantling of the agency and a wholesale destruction of their physical infrastructure. Barring those action items, you should expect the illegal surveillance to continue.
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Re: NSA review panel - Strip powers to collect phone data

Postby Smitty-48 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:01 pm

@DrY

It's not about "power and control" it's all about focus and clarity. NSA keeps the authority it needs to zero in on actual threats, with a laser like focus, relieves them of the mission creep and nebulous accountability issues, and addresses every single civil liberties issue, exactly as people like Dan have said that they wanted.

You name it; from a civil liberties advocate at the FISA court, to integrating risks to privacy and liberty into the very core of the threat matrix itself; things like terrorism and threats to liberty are given equal priority, no undermining one to address the other, national security and constitutionality are both addressed as core mandates in the mission statement. It's fuckin' comprehensive, goes through everything, point by point, leaves no stone unturned.

If Americans just lay about feeling sorry for themselves, wallowing in self pity and cynicism, and this doesn't get adopted, then they deserve their fate; Just Desserts. Fuck em'.

Quite frankly, I'm so sick of them whining and crying like a bunch of two year olds, I'm happy for them to be rounded up and put in camps, just so we don't have to hear it anymore. Spare us this pathetic display and just get on with it.

Mind you, Canada could just grab this report and run with it for our own benefit, no reason not to, it would make CSEC more effective and then we could really sneer at the Americans from a position of moral superiority; lets do it.

Parliamentary Supremacy; we can do whatever the fuck we want to, nothing standing in the way. Even the Harpercons wouldn't have a problem with it, it's right up their alley in fact. Wasn't written by no Left Wing Peacehippies, it's actually an ultra-conservative report, small "c" version of. Their base would eat this shit up. It just puts Signals Intelligence back on mission and cuts all the fat out of their mandate. Lean and Mean, no mission creep.

In fact, CSEC has actually been asking for just this sort of refocusing themselves, for years now. CSEC director asked for it again just the other day. All the Shitwits in the opposition want to talk about is Mike fuckin' Duffy, but that ain't CSEC's fault.

Justin Trudeau oughta jump on this bandwagon like a fat kid on a smartie, it's gold Jerry. The Liberals could steal this report, Canadianize it, and put it right into their election platform; out libertarian the libertarians, without losing a singe vote on the Left; take the wheel, drive the bus, quit your piss-moanin'.
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Re: NSA review panel - Strip powers to collect phone data

Postby DrYouth » Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:29 pm

Smitty-48 wrote:Canada could just grab this report and run with it for our own benefit, no reason not to, it would make CSEC more effective and then we could really sneer at the Americans from a position of moral superiority; lets do it.

This is the most fired up and non-fatalistic I have ever seen Smitty!!
Hit the sweet spot!
:goldstar:
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Re: NSA review panel - Strip powers to collect phone data

Postby Smitty-48 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:33 pm

DrYouth wrote:
Smitty-48 wrote:Canada could just grab this report and run with it for our own benefit, no reason not to, it would make CSEC more effective and then we could really sneer at the Americans from a position of moral superiority; lets do it.

This is the most fired up and non-fatalistic I have ever seen Smitty!!
Hit the sweet spot!
:goldstar:



The report is solid, Canadians could learn something from these people, American public may never learn, but we can always take what we like and leave the rest.

Too bad they are such Non-Hackers, cause that report is something to be proud of. The US would be the World Gold Standard, everybody would just follow their lead, it's leaders of the free world material.

Just sign the fucker into law and lets roll...
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