Soldier Suicide and Family Courts

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Soldier Suicide and Family Courts

Postby Fife » Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:26 am

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Re: Soldier Suicide and Family Courts

Postby viktorthepirate » Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:25 pm

I was Enlisted JAG for a 3 year stint between other jobs in the Army and it's a huge problem. We did primarily prosecution but we also did legal assistance on small issues so Soldiers wouldn't have to go all the way to the Legal Assistance office and get told to come back in two weeks. JAG cannot represent Soldiers on civil issues but they can give advice.

Just about every day some guy would come in and tell me some terrible injustice and the most we could do is tell him how best to mitigate it, and hand him a list of local attorneys. I have a couple really good examples but they would take awhile to type. The bottom line is that 95% were fucked no matter what they did.

Unfortunately, nobody cares and nothing will change. One of the primary reasons I never plan to get married. Unfortunately THAT doesn't even protect me from owing someone half my shit in a good many states anymore.
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Re: Soldier Suicide and Family Courts

Postby coyo7e » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:15 pm

The video doesn't seem to have anything to do with suicide in veterans, I don't want to sit through the MRA "men get raped in divorce because women lie" arguments, to actually get to whatever point Fife's headline-and-a-video post is trying to get at. I agree that mental health issues for soldiers and vets is a really important issue that doesn't get enough traction, but the source is the ICMI so I am already turned off a bit.

As for viktor's statement that he will never get married due to the potential of being ripped off by his ex - isn't that what pre-nups are for?
"feminism is going to eat away at the foundations of our society by convincing men to never speak to women, which will end up destroying the human race as we know it because then we then will not ever have male-female couples if men can't talk to women, and then women will have to use technological methods to have children, and then they will just select to only have female children, eventually wiping out the male gender entirely. It'll be just like that movie Gattaca - except everyone talks about shoes all the time."

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
-Walt Whitman, "Song of Myself"
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Re: Soldier Suicide and Family Courts

Postby viktorthepirate » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:30 pm

The point is women don't have to lie to screw the guy over. It's already stacked in their favor.

And judges can reject pre-nups.

More specifically in the military case. Whatever state the divorce is filed in is the state law that applies. Different states have all kinds of different case law etc. You can set a pre-nup in North Carolina that is just fine but will get rejected in Florida where the divorce will happen.

How it screws military guys is say for instance couple gets married in Texas because the Soldier is stationed there. Spouse is from CA. They get into a fight and spouse flees with child to CA, files for divorce there. Not only will everything fall under CA law but Soldier needs to find his/her way there for court appearances. Something much more difficult for a service member than a civilian. And it would already be difficult for a regular civilian. Especially in a contested divorce this could mean many many trips. And if the spouse who fled to CA has an attorney who is worth a shit, that attorney will make as many appearances in court as possible to inconvenience the Soldier.

It's all very complex and can make your brain melt and I'm glossing over many details but I'm sure you get the gist.

I don't buy into that evil woman narrative bullshit either, however I have two big problems.

1. Service members, male and female get screwed all the time. By some states more than others.

2. Men get screwed more than women, by a large degree.
A young man who does not have what it takes to perform military service is not likely to have what it takes to make a living. Today's military rejects include tomorrow's hard-core unemployed.
-John F. Kennedy
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Re: Soldier Suicide and Family Courts

Postby coyo7e » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:57 pm

I have a (ex) friend who was in the Marines. He took some stripper home and did a bunch of coke with her and they got married in 3 months, they found out she was knocked up shortly after - it wasn't a shotgun wedding, they just got high and did a lot of barebacking. She ended up being a pill-popping wastrel who chain-smoked and drank and popped her klonopin (I personally suspect she made up the shit about her symptoms just to get a bunch fo abusable pills, she had 2 other kids on the opposite side of the country already, so she seemed to know what she was doing,) like candy [i]while pregnant, she even showed up at the bar one night while I was playing pool, 7 months preggers and drinking wine like soda - awkward) - even regularly offering her pills to people who'd drop by to hang out.

Eventually they got divorced and my buddy got the kid, and left her to his parents to raise since he wanted to be a long-haul trucker. She went back east again. Everybody lost (even me, he fucked off while owing me half a grand, after swearing he'd help me bury a body if need be (the one time I called him to back me up because I was in trouble, he said he needed to sleep to go to work the next day.)

I understand that things are slanted in the favor of women in custody battles however, especially with an active-duty soldier, how can they handle being a single parent when they might get shipped off at the drop of a hat? My cousin served 4 or 5 tours before he got too old. :(
"feminism is going to eat away at the foundations of our society by convincing men to never speak to women, which will end up destroying the human race as we know it because then we then will not ever have male-female couples if men can't talk to women, and then women will have to use technological methods to have children, and then they will just select to only have female children, eventually wiping out the male gender entirely. It'll be just like that movie Gattaca - except everyone talks about shoes all the time."

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
-Walt Whitman, "Song of Myself"
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Re: Soldier Suicide and Family Courts

Postby viktorthepirate » Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:14 pm

That's actually a really good argument. One that is being used now. Maybe sole custody for an unmarried Soldier is a bad idea. I'm not sure where I fall, like most things in law I would have to see the facts of an individual case first.

One thing that I think is clearly bullshit is that they won't make exceptions for visitation rules etc... It is not even the judge's fault most the time. His/her hands are tied by rigid state law that outlines the rules of any such agreement.

Many of these issues cannot be fixed without legislation and analysis, something most people just don't care enough about. So like I said, it's never going to change.

I guess I just feel that service members are entitled to a bit more analysis of their child custody and divorce cases other than, "well this is how it is, deal with it".
A young man who does not have what it takes to perform military service is not likely to have what it takes to make a living. Today's military rejects include tomorrow's hard-core unemployed.
-John F. Kennedy
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Re: Soldier Suicide and Family Courts

Postby coyo7e » Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:43 pm

I'm not disagreeing - I just don't feel that the MRAs are going to help that cause.

In your examples of custody where the woman moves away, well, what other options are there? People move all over the place for all manner of reasons. I would be all for having a fund and rules set up to give soldiers some kind of assistance to do stuff like appear in court in another state, but ultimately that's a States' Rights issue, not a Soldiers' Rights issue. Do you feel that the federal government should step in and supersede the state law? Perhaps have a specific court system set up wfor military personnel and their families (and ex families) which trumps state law, or perhaps enforces that the state where the marriage took place, is the state law which must be used during the divorce proceedings - potentially forcing BOTH parties to travel to a court proceeding..? It just goes to show that divorce is shitty all around. That said, my ex-buddy I told the story about above, is not alone in getting stupid and getting married too quickly - he's just fucking stupid. Bad marriages are bad marriages, and they tend to end badly as well... Perhaps military personnel should be made to go through some guidance counseling before they are allowed to tie the knot, to make sure that they're in a clear frame of mind and doing something which they can look through and see the potential consequences of, rather than simply blaming the spouse for "raping" them during the proceedings? I'm just tossing ideas at the wall here, I'm not sure how many of them are valid or stupid, and none of them are intended to shit on anyone in a divorce - my brother (not a serviceman) got a divorce and my entire family ended up having to put voice recorders on our phones in case his ex wife called during one of her meth-binges (she didn't get the kid, luckily we are in a one-party state when it comes to recording phone calls.)

Moving to CA and using that state's laws to file a divorce seem entirely reasonable to everyone involved.
"feminism is going to eat away at the foundations of our society by convincing men to never speak to women, which will end up destroying the human race as we know it because then we then will not ever have male-female couples if men can't talk to women, and then women will have to use technological methods to have children, and then they will just select to only have female children, eventually wiping out the male gender entirely. It'll be just like that movie Gattaca - except everyone talks about shoes all the time."

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
-Walt Whitman, "Song of Myself"
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Re: Soldier Suicide and Family Courts

Postby viktorthepirate » Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:22 pm

I'm fine with whatever state law the divorce is filed in applying. It kind of sucks for the service member sometimes but hey, like you said, the only other option would involve federal intervention and it would probably just get messy. It may also disadvantage the non-military spouse, which I'm against. I want equity, not either side getting an advantage.

Just off the top of my head though I think a federal law that says service members can appear by phone or video conference should be done though. I'm not sure, but I think some states require appearance in person. I think that's a fair compromise for the service member.

And oh man, how many times have they tried to do something like that in the military. Service members are also more prone to stupid marriages because there are instant gains in freedom and money the day you're married. You can move off base and you get more pay if you don't choose on base housing. But that's a whole separate issue.

Not to mention in the cases where it is actual love the military life style makes it difficult to say the least to carry on a long relationship that isn't marriage. As we always said, the Army doesn't give a fuck about your girlfriend. But again, that's way off topic. You are right in saying there are other things that can be addressed to help the issue though.
A young man who does not have what it takes to perform military service is not likely to have what it takes to make a living. Today's military rejects include tomorrow's hard-core unemployed.
-John F. Kennedy
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