The shows are too long!!!

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The shows are too long!!!

Postby ladieu » Mon May 09, 2011 8:30 am

I keep reading threads where Dan keeps saying he had to cut things out and that only the "die-hard fans" appreciate a really long episodes.

Frankly I don't understand this at all. Does the casual listener have an absolute requirement that they can only consume information in one sitting? What is the reasoning behind wanting a shorter episode? Is this a sign of our modern short attention span that if we don't present them with beginning / middle / end all within 45 minutes then we lose interest?

When you purchase an unabridged audiobook it is generally over 8 hours in length. If you have 30 minutes to listen you simply stop after 30 minutes and then continue later. (duh!)

If your one of those people who thinks Dan's podcasts on history are "too long" please justify your rational below because I haven't figured it out yet!

You're probably the same people who are harassing him to put out more episodes? Does that even make sense? You are both telling him to put out more content but also to put out less content. Please realize what you are saying and how ridiculous it is when viewed rationally.

Is there a difference between putting out three hour long podcasts or one 3 hour long podcast? At the end of the day we are talking about 3 hours of listening time here folks.

Basically your asking Dan to bake you one piece of pie and then complaining that you want more pie when Dan could have just as easily baked you a whole pie.


:splody:
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Re: The shows are too long!!!

Postby TheRidge » Mon May 09, 2011 9:53 am

Is see you are a new, so go introduce yourself so we can all welcome you.

So back to the topic. I just did an inventory of all the H.H. podcasts of the titles and the dates published. The date for Darkness Buries the Bronze Age seems to be out of order and when corrected sees to have come out one day before Nazi Tidbits. So I have marked that the anomaly in the data set. Below is the data set in days between shows releases.

Ave. diff. all shows 46.16
Ave. diff. all shows minus anomaly 47.42
Ave. diff non-multipart 37.76
Ave. diff only multipart 63.67


Median. diff. all shows 47.00
Median. diff. all shows minus anomaly 49.50
Median. diff non-multipart 35.00
Median. diff only multipart 61.50

First I show the Average and Median values with an with the anomaly. We can see there is very little shift in the data so for the average and median of mutlipart and non-multipart we include the anomaly.

Now based on the stats produced, here is where you are wrong. On average it takes almost twice as long to get out a multipart show vs. a non multipart show. To be more exact it takes 68% to 75% more time to turn out a show in a multipart series vs. a non-multipart show. So for pies, let's assume a whole pie equals four single sized slices in volume. Dan can bake 7 slices of pie in the same amount of time he can bake one whole pie. 7/4 = 175%

Edit: Fixed terminology in the data.
Last edited by TheRidge on Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There was a seminar for advanced students in Zürich that I was teaching and von Neumann was in the class. I came to a certain theorem, and I said it is not proved and it may be difficult. Von Neumann didn't say anything but after five minutes he raised his hand. When I called on him he went to the blackboard and proceeded to write down the proof. After that I was afraid of von Neumann.
How to Solve It, George Pólya

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Re: The shows are too long!!!

Postby ladieu » Mon May 09, 2011 10:05 am

I'm not to interested in the frequency or stats related to that. What I am concerned with is Dan sacrificing the quality of his product to meet somebody's expectation of episode length.

Read the apache tears thread and his response to it. I'll wait a few extra weeks to get the whole story.

Ok so I admit I was being a bit of a jerk above in my post and I'll apologize for the tone... if you hate me you hate me

-Nick
DBTrek wrote: ...when an EPIC retard hits the forums I try to prune those branches early.
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Re: The shows are too long!!!

Postby TheRidge » Mon May 09, 2011 10:19 am

ladieu wrote:I'm not to interested in the frequency or stats related to that. What I am concerned with is Dan sacrificing the quality of his product to meet somebody's expectation of episode length.

Read the apache tears thread and his response to it. I'll wait a few extra weeks to get the whole story.

Ok so I admit I was being a bit of a jerk above in my post and I'll apologize for the tone... if you hate me you hate me

-Nick


No hate here. I am a numbers guy, so I just cranked out the numbers behind why most listeners want fewer multipart shows.
There was a seminar for advanced students in Zürich that I was teaching and von Neumann was in the class. I came to a certain theorem, and I said it is not proved and it may be difficult. Von Neumann didn't say anything but after five minutes he raised his hand. When I called on him he went to the blackboard and proceeded to write down the proof. After that I was afraid of von Neumann.
How to Solve It, George Pólya

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
How to Build a Universe That Doesn't Fall Apart Two Days Later, Philip K. Dick

Drop in, post something, fight, get pissed off, and then find out you learned something along the way. You will find that is often a pattern you will go through in the D.C.F. ~ TheRidge
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Re: The shows are too long!!!

Postby ladieu » Mon May 09, 2011 10:23 am

Yes typically I am a nice person. I was just feeling annoyed... ghosts / fall of the replubic etc... those are my favorites as compared to the other episodes.. to me there is no comparison.

Opinions are like ....

TheRidge wrote:
ladieu wrote:I'm not to interested in the frequency or stats related to that. What I am concerned with is Dan sacrificing the quality of his product to meet somebody's expectation of episode length.

Read the apache tears thread and his response to it. I'll wait a few extra weeks to get the whole story.

Ok so I admit I was being a bit of a jerk above in my post and I'll apologize for the tone... if you hate me you hate me

-Nick


No hate here. I am a numbers guy, so I just cranked out the numbers behind why most listeners want fewer multipart shows.
DBTrek wrote: ...when an EPIC retard hits the forums I try to prune those branches early.
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Re: The shows are too long!!!

Postby TheRidge » Mon May 09, 2011 12:09 pm

FYI, If any one wants to check the math, here is the dataset.

Title Date Diff in Date by days
Alexander versus Hitler 27-Jul-06
Guns & Horses 12-Sep-06 47.00
The Organization of Peace 4-Oct-06 22.00
Romancing The Tribes 24-Oct-06 20.00
Meandering Through The Cold War 14-Nov-06 21.00
Shield of the West 8-Dec-06 24.00
The X-History Files 27-Dec-06 19.00
Scars of the Great War 27-Jan-07 31.00
The What-Ifs Of 1066 13-Mar-07 45.00
Thoughts on Churchill 11-Apr-07 29.00
Steppe Stories 8-May-07 27.00
Bubonic Nukes 13-Jun-07 36.00
The Macedonian Soap Opera 18-Jul-07 35.00
Desperate Times 30-Aug-07 43.00
Darkness Buries the Bronze Age 16-Oct-07 47.00
Nazi Tidbits 17-Oct-07 1.00
Judgment at Nineveh 14-Dec-07 58.00
A Fly on James Burke's Wall 2-Jan-08 19.00
Apache Tears 14-Mar-08 72.00
History Under The Influence 6-May-08 53.00
Punic Nightmares I 27-Jul-08 82.00
Punic Nightmares II 17-Sep-08 52.00
Punic Nightmares III 30-Oct-08 43.00
Classical Hanson 21-Nov-08 22.00
The Dyer Outlook 20-Jan-09 60.00
Addicted to Bondage 3-Feb-09 14.00
Ghosts of the Ostfront I 19-Apr-09 75.00
Ghosts of the Ostfront II 17-Jun-09 59.00
Ghosts of the Ostfront III 10-Aug-09 54.00
Ghosts of the Ostfront IV 10-Oct-09 61.00
Suffer the Children 9-Dec-09 60.00
Globalization Unto Death 27-Feb-10 80.00
Old School Toughness 27-Apr-10 59.00
Death Throes of the Republic I 27-Jun-10 61.00
Death Throes of the Republic II 29-Aug-10 63.00
Death Throes of the Republic III 30-Oct-10 62.00
Death Throes of the Republic IV 27-Jan-11 89.00
Death Throes of the Republic V 31-Mar-11 63.00


I would have attached the file but that feature was disabled awhile ago.
But you should be able to copy this and paste it as a Tab Separated Value in any spreadsheet.

Calculating the days between the dates is as simple as C2 =B3-B2 and letting the cells adjust as you use Ctrl-D down the column.

BTW, still waiting for the tables tag to be fixed.


Edit: Added comment about the tables tag
There was a seminar for advanced students in Zürich that I was teaching and von Neumann was in the class. I came to a certain theorem, and I said it is not proved and it may be difficult. Von Neumann didn't say anything but after five minutes he raised his hand. When I called on him he went to the blackboard and proceeded to write down the proof. After that I was afraid of von Neumann.
How to Solve It, George Pólya

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
How to Build a Universe That Doesn't Fall Apart Two Days Later, Philip K. Dick

Drop in, post something, fight, get pissed off, and then find out you learned something along the way. You will find that is often a pattern you will go through in the D.C.F. ~ TheRidge
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Re: The shows are too long!!!

Postby Eustace » Thu May 12, 2011 4:37 pm

Personally... we're not forced to pay for this stuff, and I like listening to Dan's opinion. If he wants to go on for an hour and a half about some obscure point of history, I think you'll find that's why I listen to the show. It's also why Apple gave us the pause button :worship:
How far would you go for an idea? Paul Kelly's 'Rising Star, available from Amazon
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Re: The shows are too long!!!

Postby mikado » Sat May 14, 2011 6:55 am

I say make 'em longer than they are now! Can't get enough of Dan.
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Re: The shows are too long!!!

Postby waaaghboss » Sat May 14, 2011 10:59 am

Math and hardcore history, this is my greatest dream come true!

PS
longer episodes are not a bad thing dan!
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Re: The shows are too long!!!

Postby curvy » Sat May 14, 2011 7:47 pm

i feel like my one of my favorite things in life is being threatened by people who say the shows are too long. HH is one my favorite things in life. the more the better. the longer he better. if it's too long, come back to it. or better yet, read a comic book. jesus.

dan/ben/whoever; please take this post as an impassioned counter opinion to balance (or hopefully overbalance) those that dont like long shows.
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Re: The shows are too long!!!

Postby TheRidge » Sun May 15, 2011 12:30 am

curvy wrote:i feel like my one of my favorite things in life is being threatened by people who say the shows are too long. HH is one my favorite things in life. the more the better. the longer he better. if it's too long, come back to it. or better yet, read a comic book. jesus.



I guess you missed the point on the stats I calculated. You can have more or you can have longer. You can't have both.

This reminds me of years ago when I worked in the paint department of a Home Depot. People would come in an ask for a good cheap paint. I would have to reply, over here is my good paint and over here is my cheap paint. You can to pick one or the other.
Don't even ask me about the people who wanted flat-semi-gloss or oil-based-water cleanup paint. :roll:
There was a seminar for advanced students in Zürich that I was teaching and von Neumann was in the class. I came to a certain theorem, and I said it is not proved and it may be difficult. Von Neumann didn't say anything but after five minutes he raised his hand. When I called on him he went to the blackboard and proceeded to write down the proof. After that I was afraid of von Neumann.
How to Solve It, George Pólya

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
How to Build a Universe That Doesn't Fall Apart Two Days Later, Philip K. Dick

Drop in, post something, fight, get pissed off, and then find out you learned something along the way. You will find that is often a pattern you will go through in the D.C.F. ~ TheRidge
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Re: The shows are too long!!!

Postby ladieu » Mon May 16, 2011 6:31 am

i want longer... my point was when individual eps are made shorter the quality suffers, even if it results in less content overall...
DBTrek wrote: ...when an EPIC retard hits the forums I try to prune those branches early.
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Re: The shows are too long!!!

Postby curvy » Mon May 16, 2011 4:29 pm

ridge. ya, ok, i get it. i still want more AND longer.

thank you very much. :drool:
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Re: The shows are too long!!!

Postby TheRidge » Mon May 16, 2011 4:42 pm

Recent informal unscientific poll was conducted on the D.C.F. about a month ago. Generally Steppe Stories (under an hour), Bubonic Nukes (under an hour), and Judgment at Nineveh (one hour and 4 minutes) were the favorites. Any way to show they were of less quality than Punic Nightmares ?
There was a seminar for advanced students in Zürich that I was teaching and von Neumann was in the class. I came to a certain theorem, and I said it is not proved and it may be difficult. Von Neumann didn't say anything but after five minutes he raised his hand. When I called on him he went to the blackboard and proceeded to write down the proof. After that I was afraid of von Neumann.
How to Solve It, George Pólya

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
How to Build a Universe That Doesn't Fall Apart Two Days Later, Philip K. Dick

Drop in, post something, fight, get pissed off, and then find out you learned something along the way. You will find that is often a pattern you will go through in the D.C.F. ~ TheRidge
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Re: The shows are too long!!!

Postby ladieu » Tue May 17, 2011 12:37 pm

There is no hard metric I can show someone other than that ghosts was my favorite.. possibly behind the current republic series (the new contender)

Yes you are correct, it seems the sub-set of fans of the podcast who actually post on the message-board prefer those. It's hard to say what the overall analytics say... I've not looked to see if there are any public stats.

Anyway I'm exhausted on this argument as it is clearly no win. I would delete it if I could but I can't.

At the end of the day I hope DC does what brings him the most personal fulfillment. When you lose yourself to start catering to your fans you lose what brought you those fans to begin with. I'm not saying DC does this by any means. This doesn't speak to either side of the argument, just my personal philosophy.

-Nick

TheRidge wrote:Recent informal unscientific poll was conducted on the D.C.F. about a month ago. Generally Steppe Stories (under an hour), Bubonic Nukes (under an hour), and Judgment at Nineveh (one hour and 4 minutes) were the favorites. Any way to show they were of less quality than Punic Nightmares ?
DBTrek wrote: ...when an EPIC retard hits the forums I try to prune those branches early.
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