What's a little inbreeding between "people"?

Discuss new discoveries of historical significance

Moderators: Loki, exposno1, Parrot, Quasigriz, NickDupree, nmoore63, robroydude, Spinny Spamkiller

What's a little inbreeding between "people"?

Postby Dan » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:07 pm

So...if your daughter wants to marry a Neaderthal, and you wish she'd marry one of "her own kind" does that make you a bigot? :empty:
:snicker:
http://arstechnica.com/science/news/201 ... humans.ars

Right out of Eaters of the Dead if you ask me...
User avatar
Dan
Master of Ceremonies
 
Posts: 11324
Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 6:48 pm

Re: What's a little inbreeding between "people"?

Postby Dr. Strangelove » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:22 pm

More like N-Words by Ted Kosmatka. That short story is awesome. One day, the world wakes up to images of neanderthal children which were cloned in Korea. Hundreds of them. People began to adopt them, etc, to deal with the humanitarian crisis that it created. Then these kids went to school. The excelled at everything. Everything. They were smarter, stronger, better. Even morally stronger. And people began to hate them.

The story begins with a widow who was burying her neanderthal husband, murdered by a bigot, with all of them along the streets shouting at her and condemning their child. It's a powerful story.

http://sciencefictionbiology.com/direct ... -kosmatka/

EscapePod did a decent audio version of the story: http://escapepod.org/2009/05/07/episode-198-n-words/

I think this story very accurate portrays a possibility in our near future. I am not saying they will be more intelligent or anything like that. But it's only a matter of time before all of us stare at an image of other humans sharing our world. The implications will be enormously complex and deep.

Eaters of the Dead is awesome too. But I don't think it really was meant to explore those implications. He only wanted to construct some kind of science fictional basis for Beowulf.
“If the human race is to survive, then for all but a very brief period of its history, the word ship will mean space ship.” –Arthur C. Clarke
User avatar
Dr. Strangelove
Archon
 
Posts: 37014
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:21 pm

Re: What's a little inbreeding between "people"?

Postby Zombees » Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:14 pm

This stuff fascinated me when I first heard about it just because I think it exemplifies the most basic of human traits.

First we ate beside them, then we had sex with them, then we killed them off. :snicker:
Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.
User avatar
Zombees
Contributing Member
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:36 pm

Re: What's a little inbreeding between "people"?

Postby Dr. Strangelove » Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:26 pm

This kind of research really describes a situation where humanity as we know it emerged from several groups. Some of us with European descent seem to carry neanderthal genetics. People with this Asiatic and Oceanic descent have another species DNA intertwined.

I don't really accept the premise that our archaic homo sapiens ancestors exterminated other species like that. I don't even accept that they had to compete over resources until after the ice age had begun, and even then they often lived on different sources of food and materials. They seemed to have traded as well.

More importantly, if you are leading a homo sapiens clan, it might behoove for one of your females to carry a neanderthal's baby if it were possible. That child will be hugely powerful. That provides immediate strengths. Furthermore, absorbing some of the genetic traits would provide you with very fast access to millions of years of evolution and adaptation to cold climates. Neanderthals had already endured a previous ice age, apparently.

I think the story might have been very different from our ancestors wanting to exterminate these people. In some case, fighting probably did occur. But they didn't have the same reasons for fighting that we have known since the agricultural revolution began (history). It was a completely different world, with different modes of existence. Warfare is not necessarily the same at all for them. Warfare between clans of the same species seems to me far more likely. They more likely will compete over the same resources. A neanderthal and homo sapien clan might complement each other more than oppose.

And if these other species lacked the same level of intelligence, I can see how homo sapiens forcibly absorbed them more than exterminated them. I don't really know. Just the results of a simple thought experiment.
“If the human race is to survive, then for all but a very brief period of its history, the word ship will mean space ship.” –Arthur C. Clarke
User avatar
Dr. Strangelove
Archon
 
Posts: 37014
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:21 pm

Re: What's a little inbreeding between "people"?

Postby DrYouth » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:32 am

It puts people's concerns about race into perspective.
Interacial differences are minor compared to interspecies differences.
And even interspecies differences can be bridged... to some degree... The product of the union can bring new strengths and abilities that can assist in survival.
Together we are mightier than we are divided.
Food for thought.
"Trek requires no sunshine to be happy. He feeds off the despair of others like a dementor." e_room_matt

"If throwing the mentally challenged off bridges were legal under the Death with Dignity Act, there's enough retards on this thread alone to shut down shipping on the Columbia River." drtrech

"You pansy-ass hippy utopian naive fool" coyo7e
User avatar
DrYouth
Hetairoi
 
Posts: 5611
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:42 am
Location: Canadastan

Re: What's a little inbreeding between "people"?

Postby Rhoetus » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:20 pm

Dr. Strangelove wrote:More importantly, if you are leading a homo sapiens clan, it might behoove for one of your females to carry a neanderthal's baby if it were possible. That child will be hugely powerful. That provides immediate strengths. Furthermore, absorbing some of the genetic traits would provide you with very fast access to millions of years of evolution and adaptation to cold climates. Neanderthals had already endured a previous ice age, apparently.

Judging from how humans have behaved in recorded history, which...granted... might be very different from tens of thousands of years ago, I think it would be much more likely that it wouldn't be one of "your" females carrying a neanderthal baby, but a neanderthal woman carrying your baby. First off, if a neanderthal was so much more powerful it would be more likely that a neanderthal mother would be better equipped to carry human HS baby to term than a HS woman carrying a half neanderthal baby to term.
We all want progress, but if you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive.
C. S. Lewis
User avatar
Rhoetus
Satrap
 
Posts: 2567
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:12 am
Location: Homer, NY

Re: What's a little inbreeding between "people"?

Postby Fanaticalindependent » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:42 pm

Dan wrote:So...if your daughter wants to marry a Neaderthal, and you wish she'd marry one of "her own kind" does that make you a bigot? :empty:
:snicker:
http://arstechnica.com/science/news/201 ... humans.ars

Right out of Eaters of the Dead if you ask me...


I suppose it depends why you want her to marry her own kind. :D

Sort of reminds me of my mom telling me my grandfather was opposed to her marrying anyone outside their own ethnic "brand".

It's a nice article. Especially since it undermines the "we humans are special and God created us special and different from anyone else" I keep hearing from my rightwing evangelical friends.

We're all animals after all... I wonder if way back then people were facing the choice of "breed with these other populations becuase they're the only others around" or something more emotional.
If Con is the opposite of Pro. Then what is the opposite of Pro-gress?
User avatar
Fanaticalindependent
Nomarch
 
Posts: 1394
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:07 pm
Location: just north of Green Bay, WI


Return to New Discoveries

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests