Breaking Bad

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Re: Breaking Bad

Postby Carlus Magnus » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:48 am

I watched the first few episodes of this and never got back to it. I liked it. Perhaps I can watch them on Netflix this winter.
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Re: Breaking Bad

Postby StCapps » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:11 am

General Buttnekked wrote:I'm going to give my honest feedback and I don't mean to offend anyone or dismiss the OP's endorsement...

I really enjoyed the first season and the internal conflict Walt and Jesse had to process through....by the end of season 2, I got really lost and felt their story-telling just gave up and started grabbing for low-hanging fruit to keep the gravy train rolling.

The Mexican twins, the mercenaries, the cartoon villians and cops, the ridiculous over-the-top "drama" that is every scene like it was a Reality TV show......all the while being as subtle as a punch in the head.

Season 5, is just a joke (imo). I think AMC is capable and shown the balls to launch good series, but once they get a hit (BB, Mad Men, Walking Dead, Hell on Wheels, etc) they are more than willing to rest on their laurels to the sacrifice of an actual story.

The show really had the ability to become an interwoven and deep reflection like "The Wire" was, but it fell victim to success. The problem with telling a story is that it must have a beginning and an end (here is where we're gonna start and here is where we're gonna stop), regardless if there is a conclusion or not. Profit-centered-interest television is like listening to a 6 year old explain what happened

"There was this guy.....
and then....
and then....
and then....
and then....
and then...."

and it continues like that, throwing in whatever it can to keep your attention, whether or not if makes sense or completes the story.
No offense taken but most of you're conclusions about the show are extremely confusing to me.

The story is best part of the damn show so how you think it went of the rails in Season 2 is something that baffles me. I mean that's when it just starts to really get good. The show has a lot to do with moral choices and their consequences and there is a lot of subtle shit going on top of the fantastic acting. You thinking the show is a subtle as a punch in head is just wrong and I don't understand how all the subtlety that Breaking Bad is throwing down could be so easily missed. The show may have gotten a little dramatic for your tastes but to say they abandoned good story telling in order to make the show more dramatic, well that's just a faulty assessment. This show has not fallen victim to it's success and if it actually does so it will be in the shows fifth season.

I can see why some people wouldn't like some things about the show but a lack of subtlety and the writers giving up on good story telling to ramp up the drama are just not problems that Breaking Bad has as a show. Also if you can't enjoy Breaking Bad's villains than you don't like good tv villains, period. The sheer drama of the show may be too over the top for some but the other arguments you made just do not hold water.

I mean you are saying the show lacks subtlety when it's probably most subtle show on television. You are saying that in order to ramp up the drama they sacrificed the quality of the story despite the fact that critics universally applaud BB for maintaining and improving story quality even while ramping up the drama. You are saying the villains are cartoonish when they are some of the most memorable villains in TV history. You are saying you really liked Season 1 and then the show started to lose you afterward when the show is essentially universally seen as getting better as the story progresses.

How is that even possible? I'm confuzzled.
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Re: Breaking Bad

Postby General Buttnekked » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:13 am

I'm not saying you're wrong, just giving my impressions. I'm pretty dispassionate about this subject, so no need to get worked up or take it personal. If you like the show, cool.

StCapps wrote:The story is best part of the damn show.

I think it could be a great story
Is it better than 80% of the crap that is television? I would heartily agree.
I just don't think the writers anticipated/wanted to take it to where it is now when they were plotting this out in 2007. It is a network pitch ad-lib....."hey what if...." then it is a snowball of advertising revenue. It a dramatic comic book now and see a lot of things that annoy me because they are designing the story for an ADD audience (to capture as big of a demographic as possible); its aimless in my opinion


StCapps wrote:The show is has a lot to do with moral choices and their consequences and there is a lot of subtle shit going on top of the fantastic acting.

I see what you're saying, but they are 'moral choices' coming from 1-dimensional characters. I can't say anything bad about Bryan Cranston, he does a good job (as the story allows) to express his conflict and the duality involved, but every scene for the past 4 seasons amounts to a nervous breakdown. I can see some (the initial dilemas, trafficking, running, etc), but its like clockwork now.....and it becomes a little ridiculous (take the last episode) where he goes from extreme husband to wheelchair bombing IRA member in the span of 10 minutes. This guy IRL would be so fucking numb to all that shit and be beyond some of the maudlin dilemmas that are thrust upon him at this point. The rest of the characters are on the verge of being cardboard cutouts.

Saul is the only comedic relief to the over-the-top PMS drama
StCapps wrote:.... the other arguments you made just do not hold water.

okay

StCapps wrote:At this point your comments are starting make me seriously question your taste in television.

based on what? what other shows am I endorsing?


StCapps wrote:I mean you are saying the show lacks subtlety when it's probably most subtle show on television,

they spell everything out for the viewer. This is helped because there is very little that breaks away from the white, suburban mindset (as normalcy) as the standard.

StCapps wrote: I for one am baffled.

okay
Image
interesting villain, but ridiculous and absurd plots
(hey, we're stuck in a Cartel Kingpin's compound.....lets bring poison tequila as our only hope of escape = Star Fucking Wars material there). How many engagements was Gus involved with that essentially make him out to be some Jedi Ninja? (clairvoyance / dodging bullets, etc).

Image
what
the
fuck

1-dimensional caricature of all these drug-Hitlers Walt & Jesse contend with
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Re: Breaking Bad

Postby StCapps » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:26 am

By the way I'm not taking this personally you are reading too much into what I'm saying with that conclusion because that is not what I am trying to say.
I think it could be a great story
Is it better than 80% of the crap that is television? I would heartily agree.
I just don't think the writers anticipated/wanted to take it to where it is now when they were plotting this out in 2007. It a dramatic comic book now and see a lot of things that annoy me because they are designing the story for an ADD audience (to capture as big of a demographic as possible)
What things annoy you because I have no idea what you are talking about. Just because it appeals to mainstream doesn't mean they are dumbing it down for them.

I see what you're saying, but they are 'moral choices' coming from 1-dimensional characters. I can't say anything bad about Bryan Cranston, he does a good job (as the story allows) to express his conflict and the duality involved, but every scene for the past 4 seasons amounts to a nervous breakdown. I can see some (the initial dilemas, trafficking, running, etc), but its like clockwork now.....and it becomes a little ridiculous (take the last episode) where he goes from extreme husband to wheelchair bombing IRA member in the span of 10 minutes. This guy IRL would be so fucking numb to all that shit and be beyond some of the maudlin dilemmas that are thrust upon him at this point. The rest of the characters are on the verge of being cardboard cutouts.

Saul is the only comedic relief to the over-the-top PMS drama
The guy cooks Crystal meth and gets deeply involved in a criminal underworld so yeah chances are shit tends to get dramatic when you live that lifestyle. Yes Walt's transformation is happening at a startling pace but if you want to live that lifestyle your hands get dirty by necessity whether you start off as a good person or not. His transformation shows how even a good hearted person is capable of consciously turning down the path of wrong given good motivation and can slowly become a monster as unintended consequence of that decision. That is the kind of subtlety that Breaking Bad brings to the table when you pay attention.

As for one dimension characters, what? To say that Jesse Pinkman, Skyler White, Hank Schrader are one dimensional characters is to not have payed attention over four seasons. The villains are not one dimensional either, aside from maybe Tuco and his cousins. Tuco's cousins made a good foil especially in One Minute and were so badass that I can let slide though. Tuco's shtick wasn't awful either so as far as one-dimensional villains you don't have much to point to.

Image
what
the
fuck

1-dimensional caricature of all these drug-Hitlers Walt & Jesse contend with

And shitting on Mark Margolis is retarded, the man never said a word and managed to communicate everything through facial expressions and quite brilliantly I might add. That's damn fine acting by the dude who played Hector Salamanca and you shit on it? You clearly have no idea what good acting is if you can't appreciate that performance. Shame on you.

Also when do they spell everything out for the viewer? I can think of dozens of examples where they let the viewer fill in the blanks. In fact if you read interviews that the creator of the series has done he mentions that often goes out of the way to leave blanks for the viewers to fill in. Seriously you have legit beef with the show and that is it's too dramatic for your tastes, all your other conclusions are just incorrect assessments of the show that would expect out of someone who has never seen it and is trying to bullshit their way through an argument about it. I mean what you are complaining about is stuff that everyone almost universally applauds, it's just weird. Stick to it's too dramatic because the other arguments are just bullshit.
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Re: Breaking Bad

Postby General Buttnekked » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:42 am

StCapps wrote:By the way I'm not taking this personally you are reading too much into what I'm saying with that conclusion

you apparently are, because you are vehemently defending this show as if it were the greatest fucking production in history. Its not.

A critique is raised and (I) "obviously have no clue what I'm talking about....all your views are invalid"
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Re: Breaking Bad

Postby StCapps » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:52 am

General Buttnekked wrote:
StCapps wrote:By the way I'm not taking this personally you are reading too much into what I'm saying with that conclusion

you apparently are, because you are vehemently defending this show as if it were the greatest fucking production in history. Its not.

A critique is raised and (I) "obviously have no clue what I'm talking about....all your views are invalid"
It's definitely one of the top 5 greatest shows of all-time, imo. You are critiquing things that are universally applauded about the show so clearly you don't know what you are talking about. If you were critiquing things that are actual problems with the show instead of bullshiting your way through why you don't think it's as good as I suggest it is than I wouldn't be saying your critiques are invalid.

You say the show isn't subtle, when it clearly is.
You say the writers spell everything out for the viewer when they pride themselves on not doing that and critics in turn applaud them for it.
You say the characters are one-dimensional, when they are multi-dimensional with like maybe 3 exceptions that aren't particularly bad exceptions.
You say the show gets worse as it goes on, when everyone but you says it gets better as it goes on.

Explain how sharing these viewpoints leads one to knowing what they are talking about when it comes to subject Breaking Bad. The only good argument you have presented which could be a legitimate beef about the show for some people is that it's very dramatic and some people just don't enjoy that level of drama. Your other conclusions make no sense unless you didn't pay that close attention when you were watching the show and therefore developed some weird conclusions about qualities the show has or doesn't have.

Your critiques just don't have any basis in fact on this subject. On other subjects your critiques are well founded but when it comes to Breaking Bad, it's like you a watched completely different show than I did. It seems like what I watched is in fact almost the complete opposite of what you watched based on your comments about the plot, characters, subtlety and pacing of the show.

No one I've have ever talked to has ever said you know Breaking Bad is missing a sense of subtlety, they hold the audiences hand too much and their characters are one-dimensional. That's like watching Hannibal and saying there wasn't enough gore when a dude had his face cut off. If you wanted to watch a show that is subtle, doesn't it's audiences hand and has multi-dimensional characters then it's hard to do better than Breaking Bad. Your conclusions seem almost like a joke to me considering that context.
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Re: Breaking Bad

Postby General Buttnekked » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:24 am

here, let me see if I can explain better.
I'm not exactly enamored by your dismissals though, as they amount to "everyone thinks this a great show, therefore you are invalid". I never said that the show was horrible or that my opinion is the standard. I merely provided my feedback of the show after having seeing the majority of 3 seasons (not so much season 3)


It is good television, like "Bourne Ultimatum" is good movie.
It is entertaining, its suspenseful, it may make a basic statement.......it isn't a profound one, though. It has a lot of different players, but it is about a mile wide and an inch deep.

You admit that it is full of drama and suspense (that I'm contending is way over the top), but its also so subtle. I'd rank "Breaking Bad" right along with "The Shield", its about the same level there. "Sons of Anarchy" is a few rungs below (because of the same issues I've listed for Breaking Bad, they are just more evident in that show).

Good television? I'm thinking "Deadwood" or "The Wire" or "Treme"

I haven't said that Breaking Bad is terrible or not a good show. I simply offered up critiques as to why I find this as more-of-the-same aimless drama.
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Re: Breaking Bad

Postby StCapps » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:34 am

General Buttnekked wrote:here, let me see if I can explain better.
I'm not exactly enamored by your dismissals though, as they amount to "everyone thinks this a great show, therefore you are invalid". I never said that the show was horrible or that my opinion is the standard. I merely provided my feedback of the show after having seeing the majority of 3 seasons (not so much season 3)


It is good television, like "Bourne Ultimatum" is good movie.
It is entertaining, its suspenseful, it may make a basic statement.......it isn't a profound one, though. It has a lot of different players, but it is about a mile wide and an inch deep.

You admit that it is full of drama and suspense (that I'm contending is way over the top), but its also so subtle. I'd rank "Breaking Bad" right along with "The Shield", its about the same level there. "Sons of Anarchy" is a few rungs below (because of the same issues I've listed for Breaking Bad, they are just more evident in that show).

Good television? I'm thinking "Deadwood" or "The Wire" or "Treme"

I haven't said that Breaking Bad is terrible or not a good show. I simply offered up critiques as to why I find this as more-of-the-same aimless drama.
So your just on Season 3, that explains your thinking the show doesn't get better as it goes along because the last half of season 3 and all of season 4 are still to come.

As a person who hasn't seen the last two seasons in their entirety I can see why you wouldn't place it with the likes of The Wire or The Sopranos yet, but after you're done season 4 you will see why it would be a robbery to not be mentioned among those shows. It is way deeper than you are giving it credit for and this will become more evident the more episodes you watch. Bourne Ultimatum is bad analogy because Breaking Bad is much higher brow entertainment, like ridiculously so.

You may find it to be an aimless drama at the moment but that is out of ignorance of what happens in the rest of the series. If you had said you hadn't watched it all your conclusions would have been more understandable. People who have only watched two seasons of breaking bad routinely under-estimate it's greatness. Even I did at the time despite the hype people lavished it with I still wasn't fully prepared for that level of awesomeness that was the last two seasons of Breaking Bad in spite of the fact I was expecting it.

Check back when you've seen it all chances are your opinion will be significantly different, I know mine was. After Season 2 I was skeptical it was on the same level as shows like the Sopranos after Season 4 there we no doubts in mind it deserved to be mentioned in the same breath.

The first real "holy shit this show is the fucking shit" moment is in the third season episode entitled "One Minute" near the end. That's when you get the first real hint of how truly great the show will turn out to be. What a goddamn scene that was.
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Re: Breaking Bad

Postby General Buttnekked » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:21 pm

I clearly said I watched season 1, most of 2, and all of 4.
Whether or not I'm missing pieces of a story has no real bearing on how I feel the episodes are packaged, acting, characters, etc.....


I watched, like 48 episodes of Mad Men over the summer out of sheer boredom. I don't need to see every goddamned episode to realize its a trite and boring story.
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Re: Breaking Bad

Postby StCapps » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:19 pm

General Buttnekked wrote:I clearly said I watched season 1, most of 2, and all of 4.
Whether or not I'm missing pieces of a story has no real bearing on how I feel the episodes are packaged, acting, characters, etc.....


I watched, like 48 episodes of Mad Men over the summer out of sheer boredom. I don't need to see every goddamned episode to realize its a trite and boring story.
Its a serialized show you cant watch a season here and there and get a sense for the story, how the characters develop and you don't get invested as much in the characters which are the driving force for the action and provide context to all the craziness that unfolds. If you don't enjoy it's brand of storytelling whatever I don't know what more you can want from a show because everything you want from it has in spades you just missed it somehow in the sporadic watching of heavily serialized drama.

You complain about Walt transforming too fast when you missed a season of that transformation and have an extremely distorted context? You can't miss a season of a serialized drama that moves at the pace breaking bad does or all context is lost and you end up feeling like it's just another aimless drama. You don't understand the necessary nature of watching this show in proper order, watching this series in a way that goes against the way it's meant to be watched makes you end up not truly understanding why characters are acting the way they are in season 4 because you didn't watch season 3. Plus because you watched season 4 before you watched you season 3 key plot twists have been ruined and your enjoyment of that season should you ever go back and watch it has been reduced.

Your view of the show is completely distorted, you can't watch a serial drama that runs at that pace while missing a whole season and yet expect to understand what all the fuss is about since you didn't watch what everyone else did. If you missed the best two seasons of The Wire you wouldn't know why everyone says it's so great either but at least their seasons are compartmentalized so that would negate the effect to some degree but it probably wouldn't crack your top 10 all time. Breaking Bad does not even have that luxury so it's no wonder you think the story is aimless, it not because of it's quality it's because of how you watched it.

It sucks but watching the series the way you have has reduced your enjoyment of one of the truly great television shows of all time. Now it's just another B level show with some notable moments. If you go back and rewatch it start to finish you will understand how good of a show it really is but it will never be the same as if you watched it from start to finish in the proper order while not knowing what is going to happen next throughout the whole experience. And really you only have yourself to blame for that.
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Re: Breaking Bad

Postby General Buttnekked » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:55 am

just for the record, I didn't heck and peck episodes. I watched it when it first came out (I was a regular audience) because it was really breaking ground and the dynamic between Walt and Jesse was worth watching. I watched season 2 the following year, but even after all that it began progressing to a point where I just wasn't interested. Lets face it, nothing is going to happen to Walt, Jesse, Walt's wife or son, so you could be guaranteed that nothing was really going to change in the plot and it began spinning more and more out of the realm of reality. Its one thing to be hunted down my the Mexican Cartels, its another thing to be kidnapped, having conflicted detectives after you is another.....but they took it to G.I. Joe comic book levels, which is why I just tired of it. Its not a bad program, but it has its share of problems

I can certainly see why folks are into the show. My experience is different. I don't know that that completely means I have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm glad you're really into the series.
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Re: Breaking Bad

Postby StCapps » Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:19 pm

General Buttnekked wrote:just for the record, I didn't heck and peck episodes. I watched it when it first came out (I was a regular audience) because it was really breaking ground and the dynamic between Walt and Jesse was worth watching. I watched season 2 the following year, but even after all that it began progressing to a point where I just wasn't interested.
Well Season 3 is much better than Season 2 and it's not like Walt and Jesse's relationship has gotten less interesting since the beginning of the series so you picked a lousy time to stop watching.

General Buttnekked wrote:Lets face it, nothing is going to happen to Walt, Jesse, Walt's wife or son, so you could be guaranteed that nothing was really going to change in the plot and it began spinning more and more out of the realm of reality. Its one thing to be hunted down my the Mexican Cartels, its another thing to be kidnapped, having conflicted detectives after you is another.....but they took it to G.I. Joe comic book levels, which is why I just tired of it. Its not a bad program, but it has its share of problems
Let's face it, Breaking Bad is not a show that is afraid to kill off it's characters. I won't say who to prevent spoilers. If you think there is zero chance of anything happening to the mentioned characters than you haven't really been watching the show. Hell the writers even wanted to kill Jesse off in Season 1, this show just doesn't hold on back on character killing tip. Obviously Walt cannot die until the end of the series otherwise it would be over but that is hardly a reason to hate on the show. Why would you complain about the shows plot not moving forward and seriously impacting the characters in any meaningful way when the show is filled with such examples? Again you and your confusing conclusions about the show, are you sure you watched the same program?

General Buttnekked wrote:I can certainly see why folks are into the show. My experience is different. I don't know that that completely means I have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm glad you're really into the series.
Your experience is different because you watched the show in a different manner than mostly everyone else who has watched the show. Combine that with the fact that you don't like shows with as much drama as Breaking Bad and your more negative POV of the show is easily explained. Your beefs are not with quality of the show aside from your personal tastes finding it overly dramatic. The vast majority of your beef with the show stems from the fact that you watched a heavily serialized drama in the incorrect chronological order.

It sucks your experience with the show was not as positive as mine but a lot of the specific "problems" you mentioned are actually strengths of the show, so I don't know what to tell you.
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Re: Breaking Bad

Postby General Buttnekked » Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:04 pm

StCapps wrote:Your experience is different because you watched the show in a different manner than mostly everyone else who has watched the show.
The vast majority of your beef with the show stems from the fact that you watched a heavily serialized drama in the incorrect chronological order.


seriously......how do you keep misreading my posts?
I c-l-e-a-r-l-y explained that I watched Seasons 1&2 as they were aired years ago
what are you missing?
:qmarks:
When did I say the series sucked?
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Re: Breaking Bad

Postby StCapps » Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:54 pm

General Buttnekked wrote:
StCapps wrote:Your experience is different because you watched the show in a different manner than mostly everyone else who has watched the show.
The vast majority of your beef with the show stems from the fact that you watched a heavily serialized drama in the incorrect chronological order.


seriously......how do you keep misreading my posts?
I c-l-e-a-r-l-y explained that I watched Seasons 1&2 as they were aired years ago
what are you missing?
:qmarks:
When did I say the series sucked?
I know you watched the first two seasons but then you proceeded to watch the rest of the series (the best part of it) out of order and therefore it didn't seems as good as it otherwise would have in proper context. Whining about the first two seasons of Breaking Bad not being the greatest show ever does not constitute a proper argument the real greatness of the show. Your opinion on the third and fourth season which are two of the best seasons in tv history have been completely tainted by the way in which you watched them. That is my point.

By the standard of just the first two seasons it's easy to see BB as just another good show that isn't worthy of being on the same level as The Sopranos and The Wire. However if you watch the following two seasons - in proper order - then it's hard to see it not being mentioned in the same breath with 16 episodes still to run. But since you didn't watch the last two seasons of BB properly you are incapable of understanding the level of difference it really makes. It's not like you can't remedy that situation if you really wanted to and until you do that your opinion on where Breaking Bad should be placed in the pantheon of televised dramas is going to be skewed accordingly.
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Re: Breaking Bad

Postby General Buttnekked » Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:52 pm

cool. I appreciate the feedback.

So you're suggesting I'll never be able to recognize the brilliance of Breaking Bad, because I didn't see it in proper sequence the first time? If I sit down and watch season 3 & 4 in proper sequence, the light will come on for me and I'll see it in all its glory?
:qmarks:
I watched S1 & 2 as they aired. Didn't care to tune into S3, saw some episodes, but didn't follow it. Watched S4 (last 4 episodes as they aired)......

I see the appeal.
I see that the series is above the standard of television.
I recognize the internal conflict of the main protagonists.
I don't think it sucks.
At this point, I felt the series was interesting, but the need to progress the story and capture a larger demographic (for advertising) they went over the deep end of introducing some fanciful story twists (improbable characters, absurd plot gimmicks).

Its good - but far from great or deep
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