[Media] Occupy George - The Website

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[Media] Occupy George - The Website

Postby Goliath » Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:04 am

Link: http://occupygeorge.com/

What better way to get a message across than with the stuff even scientists use?
It is no measure of health to be well adapted to a profoundly sick society. -J. Krishnamurti (Me & The work I do http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuTIoCk9_NY :-)
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Re: [Media] Occupy George - The Website

Postby Carlus Magnus » Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:31 am

This a cleaver tool. While I support the OWS protesting, I just think they are going about it wrong. What good is protesting private business and asking them to 'share the wealth' going to do?

The people have no pull with private entities, only laws and regulations enforced by the government. If they were to camp out on the front lawns of the super comittee they might get something done.
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Re: [Media] Occupy George - The Website

Postby Goliath » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:11 am

Carlus Magnus wrote:This a cleaver tool. While I support the OWS protesting, I just think they are going about it wrong. What good is protesting private business and asking them to 'share the wealth' going to do?

The people have no pull with private entities, only laws and regulations enforced by the government. If they were to camp out on the front lawns of the super comittee they might get something done.


Although many like to label the general population as "ignorant", I think The People are becoming more intelligent (due to the internet mainly, it's a 'Symbiotic Hive-Mind'). As I see it "science" is mans latest-running innovative mental evolution. And, money, economies, and things without intrinsic value are being noticed as just that.

The system is increasingly not working because "the congregation" (to this ultimately 'religious belief') is increasingly learning how "the system" is skewed, flawed, and un-scientific. The positions of individuals are based on something completely arbitrary.

We are in the middle of a mass epiphany, as I see it. An evolution. I hope we're innovative enough of beings to find a new way to trade, in harmony with the technologies we've been using (in an unbalanced way) with the "true nature' of things.

Soldiers follow the orders of leaders who talk about the "rule of law", and eliminating the "rule of the jungle" ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CWBTL33MpA ), but those leaders, with a pen, or with verbiage, send troops off to do destructive things that "a jungle" could have never imagined.

Bonus 1: http://i.imgur.com/qZzuu.png
Bonus 2: http://i.imgur.com/DKrNg.jpg
It is no measure of health to be well adapted to a profoundly sick society. -J. Krishnamurti (Me & The work I do http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuTIoCk9_NY :-)
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Re: [Media] Occupy George - The Website

Postby Flynn » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:24 am

Carlus Magnus wrote:This a cleaver tool. While I support the OWS protesting, I just think they are going about it wrong. What good is protesting private business and asking them to 'share the wealth' going to do?

The people have no pull with private entities, only laws and regulations enforced by the government. If they were to camp out on the front lawns of the super comittee they might get something done.


I understand this argument, but I think that the idea of protesting on Wall Street isn't to convince the banks to be nice people. (Almost) nobody is that naive. The point is to collectively express anger and outrage and hopefully force the media to pay some attention to the corrupting effect Wall Street (and the business class in general) have on our government.

I can't, for the life of me, see what's wrong with that, even if it is only marginally effective. Christ, somebody's got to do something, even if it's no more than standing in a park with a stupid cardboard sign. If the teaparty really thinks the protests should be happening at the Capitol, they should really get the fuck down there and, instead of wasting energy bashing other disgruntled populists, attack the power complex from another front. OWS and the tea party working together would confuse the shit out of the MSM. They wouldn't know how to spin it.

/wishful_thinking
So as long as there are a handful of americans allied with terrorist organizations we will continue this surveillance of all americans and these wartime authorities to detain enemy combatants indefinitely... or execute them summarily...

...Because terrorists might take their puny little militaries and conquer our country.

This is a war on fleas.

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Re: [Media] Occupy George - The Website

Postby Smitty-48 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:26 am

The people are fully complicit in the power complex and there is no 1% who are fucking everything up. It's specious.

You can't attack something into fixing itself. Things don't miracle themselves back together by rage. Torches and Pitchforks don't build houses.
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Re: [Media] Occupy George - The Website

Postby Flynn » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:33 am

True, but awareness can be raised and attitudes can be changed. These things could, potentially translate into a more informed and engaged electorate, which is the only thing that might ever save this Republic. Don't get me wrong, I'm realistic (ie: hopelessly cynical) about the prospects of people being saved from themselves, but if it were to happen, the right and left would somehow have to come together on the most important issues, most of which they basically agree on.
So as long as there are a handful of americans allied with terrorist organizations we will continue this surveillance of all americans and these wartime authorities to detain enemy combatants indefinitely... or execute them summarily...

...Because terrorists might take their puny little militaries and conquer our country.

This is a war on fleas.

-DrYouth
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Re: [Media] Occupy George - The Website

Postby Smitty-48 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:37 am

Flynn wrote:True, but awareness can be raised and attitudes can be changed. These things could, potentially translate into a more informed and engaged electorate, which is the only thing that might ever save this Republic. Don't get me wrong, I'm realistic (ie: hopelessly cynical) about the prospects of people being saved from themselves, but if it were to happen, the right and left would somehow have to come together on the most important issues, most of which they basically agree on.


I don't think the problem is that the electorate is misinformed. Peoples world view shapes their outlook and the OWS people have their camp and the Tea Party has their camp, and the center is looking for practical help, so both those guerrilla marketing campaigns are likely to come a cropper.

The only way the extremes of the spectrum can win, in a system like the US, is to fight and win a civil war. The US is polarized. The more heat you pump into that situation, the more polarized it will get.

Instead of all encompassing utopian revolutionary fantasy, people have to come together on small incremental things they agree on, in order to get just one thing done. Once you get one thing done, you move on to see what else might work. Success is contagious.

To take a hard line on a broad front, is not going to work. IMO.
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Re: [Media] Occupy George - The Website

Postby Flynn » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:52 am

Not so much misinformed as uninformed. Apathetic, really.

When it comes to questions about pernicious lobbying practices and government corruption, I think that most people, left and right, are basically in agreement. Or would be if they could tear themselves away from their self-involved navel-gazing long enough to see what the hell his going on. My inner-twenty-three-year-old wants to believe that if people could somehow aside their political differences and focus on fixing the broken government, maybe something could change, and then we could all get back to squabbling, only this time with a government that is, at least marginally, working for the interests of the nation.

Maybe I'm coming off as elitist now, but I stand by the assertion that the vast majority of Americans, regardless of class, are intellectually lazy, willfully ignorant, and hopelessly in love with their petty own petty psycho-dramas. I don't really see how this will change, but maybe if things get bad enough economically, people will suddenly become curious about something other than themselves.
So as long as there are a handful of americans allied with terrorist organizations we will continue this surveillance of all americans and these wartime authorities to detain enemy combatants indefinitely... or execute them summarily...

...Because terrorists might take their puny little militaries and conquer our country.

This is a war on fleas.

-DrYouth
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Re: [Media] Occupy George - The Website

Postby Goliath » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:53 am

The "beautiful" thing about rhetoric is that it "infects" people without them blatantly saying so.
It is no measure of health to be well adapted to a profoundly sick society. -J. Krishnamurti (Me & The work I do http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuTIoCk9_NY :-)
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Re: [Media] Occupy George - The Website

Postby Smitty-48 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:56 am

Flynn wrote:
Maybe I'm coming off as elitist now, but I stand by the assertion that the vast majority of Americans, regardless of class, are intellectually lazy, willfully ignorant, and hopelessly in love with their petty own petty psycho-dramas. I don't really see how this will change, but maybe if things get bad enough economically, people will suddenly become curious about something other than themselves.


Honestly, this is just demagoguery. I know you know it Flynn. It's frustration, but I know you have a more sophisticated analysis than that.

You and I know it's not that simple.

People aren't that bad, Guy. They get it. They just want practical solutions, not revolution in the streets.
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Re: [Media] Occupy George - The Website

Postby Flynn » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:17 am

Smitty-48 wrote:
Flynn wrote:
People aren't that bad, Guy. They get it. They just want practical solutions, not revolution in the streets.


I never said that people were stupid, but apathy and ignorance is simply what I personally encounter on a daily basis from all quarters.

A violent revolution is the last thing that I would ever expect to see, and I sincerely believe that in the long run, the US is going to figure its shit out. But I fear that a very painful period is in store for us, and the tragedy is that it could have been avoided if people had been paying attention.

Do people really get it? Maybe they are beginning to, but it's been a slow dawning, and I think the farm has already been sold out from under us. What practical solutions are out there at this point?
So as long as there are a handful of americans allied with terrorist organizations we will continue this surveillance of all americans and these wartime authorities to detain enemy combatants indefinitely... or execute them summarily...

...Because terrorists might take their puny little militaries and conquer our country.

This is a war on fleas.

-DrYouth
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Re: [Media] Occupy George - The Website

Postby Smitty-48 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:22 am

Flynn wrote: What practical solutions are out there at this point?


Well, instead of writing utopian constitutions in the park and pushing for the Kyoto agreement, maybe they could occupy the SEC or Eric Holders office? Push for prosecution just on fraud, which is not legal, happening, and not being enforced? I mean, pick something.

One realistic apolitical objective, that everybody could get behind. There are lots of things that could be pressured significantly if people would drop the ideological politics and long list of pie in the sky fantasy ideas, like anarchism, anti-consumerism, or centrally planned green tech-topia,

Who are the idiots? Regular folk looking for something specific and concrete, or people playing Anarchists and Bolshevists in the park?
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Re: [Media] Occupy George - The Website

Postby Carlus Magnus » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:39 am

Flynn wrote:
I can't, for the life of me, see what's wrong with that, even if it is only marginally effective. Christ, somebody's got to do something, even if it's no more than standing in a park with a stupid cardboard sign. If the teaparty really thinks the protests should be happening at the Capitol, they should really get the fuck down there and, instead of wasting energy bashing other disgruntled populists, attack the power complex from another front. OWS and the tea party working together would confuse the shit out of the MSM. They wouldn't know how to spin it.

/wishful_thinking


I don't think there is anything wrong with it, I just see it as wasted effort, complete inefficiency. If they are willing to break laws, get arrested, get pepper sprayed, they could at least do it in a manner more effective than they crazy way they are going about it.

If their argument is that the US government have allowed corporations to get too powerful, too wealthy and influence the government too much, why not do it on the lawns of the super comittee. Hey these folks are that created the housing bubble, wrote the Patriot Act and re-authorized it. When they only go after the 'greedy capitolists' the look like Bolshies ( :altwink: Smitty)
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Re: [Media] Occupy George - The Website

Postby Flynn » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:48 am

Smitty-48 wrote:Well, instead of writing utopian constitutions in the park and pushing for the Kyoto agreement, maybe they could occupy the SEC or Eric Holders office? Push for prosecution just on fraud, which is not legal, happening, and not being enforced? I mean, pick something.

One realistic apolitical objective, that everybody could get behind. There are lots of things that could be pressured significantly if people would drop the ideological politics and long list of pie in the sky fantasy ideas, like anarchism, anti-consumerism, or centrally planned green tech-topia,



Why aren't they?

I completely agree with you, and it's more or less what I'm getting at, but why is the populism missing the mark? Maybe you think I'm blaming the victims, but I don't buy the argument that the MSM is obscuring the truth, misdirecting the rage, or any of that bullshit. The information is all out there, plain as day, for anybody to see. You and I both know there are some dumb, ideologically-driven, mother fuckers on this very forum that understand these things -- I mean Dan is practically spoon-feeding it to them. Shit, even some of the most intelligent forum members, who know better, are still fighting the same bullshit R vs D battles day in and day out.

People are smart enough, but those who don't have their head in the sand are factionalized and distracted. At what point do the American people realize that corruption and bankster cronyism are more important than gays, terrorists, and healthcare? We're fighting over the arrangement of the deck chairs on the Titanic, at this point.
So as long as there are a handful of americans allied with terrorist organizations we will continue this surveillance of all americans and these wartime authorities to detain enemy combatants indefinitely... or execute them summarily...

...Because terrorists might take their puny little militaries and conquer our country.

This is a war on fleas.

-DrYouth
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Re: [Media] Occupy George - The Website

Postby Carlus Magnus » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:57 am

Flynn wrote:I completely agree with you, and it's more or less what I'm getting at, but why is the populism missing the mark? Maybe you think I'm blaming the victims, but I don't buy the argument that the MSM is obscuring the truth, misdirecting the rage, or any of that bullshit. The information is all out there, plain as day, for anybody to see. You and I both know there are some dumb, ideologically-driven, mother fuckers on this very forum that understand these things -- I mean Dan is practically spoon-feeding it to them. Shit, even some of the most intelligent forum members, who know better, are still fighting the same bullshit R vs D battles day in and day out.

People are smart enough, but those who don't have their head in the sand are factionalized and distracted. At what point do the American people realize that corruption and bankster cronyism are more important than gays, terrorists, and healthcare? We're fighting over the arrangement of the deck chairs on the Titanic, at this point.


I don't think Populism is missing the mark, we are up against a MACHINE !
The Ds and Rs have had the last 50 years (I see Vietnam as the first strong evidence of the machine) to lock down on their one party, two faction system. They essentially control the economic interests of the country, the press, and the legal system.

Everyone wants liberties restored and overbearing regulation pulled back. It's just a matter of the right moment, the right person to get Populism going to a point it can't be stopped. I think this is what Dan was saying when he wondered if there was going to be a Kent State moment.
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