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 Post subject: Presidential Power Grabs - Attempts and Failures
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:02 pm 
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I think right now this is foremost in my mind because of the Bong Hits 4 Jesus Case: Morse vs. Frederick.

What I find appalling is that Pres. Bush is trying to take this case and make it legal for schools to discriminate against any student speech with which they disagree.

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 Post subject: Re: Presidential Power Grabs - Attempts and Failures
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:09 pm 
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djweaver wrote:
I think right now this is foremost in my mind because of the Bong Hits 4 Jesus Case: Morse vs. Frederick.

What I find appalling is that Pres. Bush is trying to take this case and make it legal for schools to discriminate against any student speech with which they disagree.


Have you got a link for that, I haven't seen anything on the President dealing with this issue.

My take is that if the kid was on a school function, regardless of his age or their location, he is responsible to the school for his actions.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:55 am 
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And what makes this case really goofy is that the incident was during school hours, but not on school property...it was across the street.

Now, does the school have the right to curtail free speech of students, during school hours off school property. The attorneys here say no.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:14 pm 
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qwiksilver wrote:
And what makes this case really goofy is that the incident was during school hours, but not on school property...it was across the street.

Now, does the school have the right to curtail free speech of students, during school hours off school property. The attorneys here say no.


Off school property but at a school function, no different than a trip to the zoo or museum. Look at it another way, if he had been hurt, during school hours, but off of school property, would the school still be liable?

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 Post subject: Link to Story
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:02 am 
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The incident took place in 2002. The story I was referring to is the latest coverage and it can be found at http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,259524,00.html. When he did this he called out sick or something from school and was not on school property but across from the school.

The President Bush request is mentioned about 1/2 way down the article.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:10 am 
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That one didn't work, but I found a reference to Bush on MSNBC.

The incident:

MSNBC wrote:
Civil rights, financial liability
Frederick chose to display the banner during a school-sanctioned event to watch the Olympic torch relay as it passed through Juneau on its way to the 2002 Winter Games in Salt Lake City.

Morse saw the banner, confronted Frederick and suspended him. Frederick said she doubled the suspension to 10 days when he quoted Thomas Jefferson on free speech.

Frederick, helped by the American Civil Liberties Union, sued the principal and the Juneau school district. He lost in federal district court, but the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said Frederick's rights were violated and that Morse could be held financially liable for her actions.

Among the factors that could weigh in the decision, Frederick was standing on public property, not school grounds when he displayed the banner. The school said students were allowed to leave class to see the torch pass by, making the event school-sanctioned. Frederick, however, never made it to school that day before the event.


So, to understand, this guy cuts school, but ends up at an event across the street from the school, where the students are at a school sanctioned event, with a provocative banner. Principal tears it down and suspends the kid. He gets mouthy and quotes Jefferson so she doubles the suspension.

The kid was truant, and disruptive. She was within her powers to suspend him, but probably not in ripping down the banner. The only way she can defend this would be if she wasn't aware that he was not in school that day.

What was accomplished by this young man's testing of his rights?

This kid's actions cost his father his job. The father worked for the company that insured the school. Of course the father sued and won $200,000, so that's a win.


The principal will most likely be forced to pay punitive damages, and she will probably lose her job.

It's a sure bet that if he's successful, or even if he's not, there will be copycat demonstrations around the country at school sanctioned events.

The schools won't allow the children out to see an event like this again.

Sounds to me like the perfect way to end a beautiful policy. Score one for personal liberty.

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 Post subject: Sorry
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:26 pm 
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The URL posted with the period at the end. if you click on it and then take that period off and hit enter it will work.

The Bush request is what got my eye. It seems to me that anymore Bush is trying to increase his power and his right to clamp down on dissenstion among the public even though he is a lame duck.

While I support the war, I also believe that the "War on Terror" is a failure, simply based on the facts of what has happened in the US since 9/11 and the systematic curtailing of our freedoms in the chase for security.

I'm with Dan on this one in that diplomacy never failed in the Middle East, it was never even tried. Bush saw a way to justify military spending and went to war. Now that people are waking up he is trying to clamp down on the opposition to his lack of foreign policy.

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 Post subject: Re: Sorry
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:30 pm 
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djweaver wrote:
The URL posted with the period at the end. if you click on it and then take that period off and hit enter it will work.

The Bush request is what got my eye. It seems to me that anymore Bush is trying to increase his power and his right to clamp down on dissenstion among the public even though he is a lame duck.

While I support the war, I also believe that the "War on Terror" is a failure, simply based on the facts of what has happened in the US since 9/11 and the systematic curtailing of our freedoms in the chase for security.

I'm with Dan on this one in that diplomacy never failed in the Middle East, it was never even tried. Bush saw a way to justify military spending and went to war. Now that people are waking up he is trying to clamp down on the opposition to his lack of foreign policy.


Yes, because "Bong Hits For Jesus" is obviously opposition to Bush's foreing policy.

???

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 Post subject: No it isn't
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:19 pm 
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No it isn't. I did get a little off topic. But Bush is try to silence any opposition from anywhere regarding any policy he has. And he has been doing it by giving himself power or some other group to do the same. And he is trying to push the agenda by indoctrinating the young so they don't realize or can't exercise the free speech they do have.

Public schools if given this power wouldn't teach free speech to kids, but rather what state-sanctioned speech is all about. It starts with the kids and ends with the general populice with heads full of mush who can't and won't think for themselves outside of that government-sanctioned box they want to put everyone in.

And don't get me wrong, it's just not Bush doing it. It's the PC crowd who says you can't offend anyone too.

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