Description
What started as a standard podcast episode morphed into an audio book on what used to be called “The Dark Ages” in Europe. Dan gets into many areas he should probably avoid…Gods, Germans, bikers, Jesus…
Dan’s research and book list
$2.99
Publish Date – Thu, 19 Jan 2012 –
Duration 04:06:00 minutes – 236.60mb
Buy from iTunes
What started as a standard podcast episode morphed into an audio book on what used to be called “The Dark Ages” in Europe. Dan gets into many areas he should probably avoid…Gods, Germans, bikers, Jesus…
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magdalena –
Excellent, a well rounded perspective on the “Dark Ages”. I loved listening about the church/state power games! Thank you Dan:)
Ryan –
This is one of my favorite episodes. I hail from German ancestry and to learn about my ancient ancestors is amazing. I suggest this to anyone who is a fan of history. My favorite quote “Imagine the United States completely gone in 5 years.” Awesome stuff.
Nicholas –
I enjoy listening to Dan’s podcasts while playing video games and this was a great one. The fact that Dan was able to bring the story full circle by introducing the Vikings as the new pagan “barbarians” was a nice touch.
Jeff –
tl;dr – It’s got some good points, but seems a bit disconnected.
First things first, I’m going to point out that this episode has nothing to do with Thor, Angels, or mythology in general. It stems from Dan’s constant comparison of Franco-Germanic barbarians to biker gangs, and he refers to them as “Thor’s Angels” (a take on Hell’s Angels) in the episode. That out of the way, the review:
I feel bad leaving less than a 5 star review because I love Hardcore History and even a less than great episode is still head and shoulders above most history programming out there. This score isn’t compared to other history shows, this is compared to the whole HH catalog which is a veritable pantheon of brilliant audio. That said, I felt that this episode lacked focus. Dan himself says that Hardcore History could have been called “Things in history that interest me” and he acknowledges that he tends to pick a subject and ramble about it. Usually, though, Dan finds an interesting angle and explores it through a number of situations. This episode lacked a strong narrative, an interesting angle, or even a recognizable purpose. It can’t decide if it’s about the fall of the Roman Empire, the progression of western civilization during the “Dark Ages”, barbarian culture and fashion, the lineage of Charlemagne, or the morphing of early Christianity into what we recognize today. This isn’t to say that this episode isn’t crammed full of cool facts, useful historical knowledge, and classic Dan Carlin moments. I simply feel that it’s missing that thread that sews the whole thing together into a coherent piece. However, I will credit this episode with giving me a much clearer understanding of how Christianity evolved from a pacifist religion centered around living in harmony into a religion that had no problem launching conquests and enforcing orthodoxy. That would have made a good thesis for the episode.
If you’re a fan of history and want to know more about the subjects I mentioned, by all means buy and enjoy this episode, but if you are easily distracted, you might frequently lose track of what Dan’s talking about because it won’t relate to a central theme.
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Okay, so I was about to post that review, but realized that I should get some background before passing judgement, so I bought the EXTRA Thor’s Angels episode to see what the design process was. Initially the episode was intended to be a one hour piece on Charlemagne that got out of control. Sadly, Charlemagne himself was only given a small percentage of time in the four hours used. (Dan even points out in the EXTRA episode how the whole Death Throes of the Republic series was actually meant to be a short episode about Cleopatra, and Thor’s Angels tried and failed to avoid that fate.) Anyways, I hope that you can forgive me for leaving a less than glowing review. I don’t mean to be overly critical, just to point out how I feel things could be improved. Love the show and always look forward to the next!
Brett –
Another great episode. Love learning about the “Dark Ages” , days of Vikings & Barbarians. Solid research & presentation
Geoffrey –
Absolutely loved the episode overall. The period after the fall of the Western Roman Empire has always been a favorite of mine and Dan handles it in a very interesting way. The biker gang comparison seemed a little much at times but, hey, sometimes if the shoe fits.
My only little gripe is the description of early Christians as being “unreasonably fanatical” for peace. A group of people standing up for their beliefs, beliefs that were just that, peaceful, even at great personal cost is not, in my view, unreasonably fanatical, but a testament to the strength of personal convictions in the cause of peace. So many in history are remembered for their personal convictions in the cause of war or conquest that calling early Christians “fanatics” seems to diminish them. It’s important to make that distinction of a peaceful religion especially in light of what later Christians became.
kristinecosta –
I love your work, and there were many factors of this that were fascinating, but I have to lower the score because of the dangerous misunderstanding and promotion of early Christianity as a force for peace which promoted intellectualism and knowledge. The Catholic church ceremonies often limited understanding by selectively choosing which works to preserve, adding and modifying texts “preserved,” using languages which relatively few people in society would understand, performing many rituals with their back to the congregation (sounds small, but this was used to limit knowledge of intervention with the god), limiting who could join the clergy, and so much more. Was it better than nothing? Yes. But, that doesn’t say much – esp since some of these practices are still in use. There was some inaccuracies re: the Early Christian church being “fanatics for peace.” Augustine of Hippo advocated for “just war.” St Ambrose of Milan and St. John Chrysostom specifically wanted violence against the Jews. etc Pogroms started very early in the church relatively soon after Christians themselves stopped being persecuted. Miroslav Volf mentions this in Christianity and Violence p13. While for a time there was a consensus that early Christians were completely peaceful, later research by historians and theologians (esp Jewish ones) show this wasn’t necessarily the case – esp related to the Jews. Furthermore, when looking at the actual text of the NT, pacifism is selectively present depending on which of Jesus’ quotes are taken into consideration.
I love your work, but you seem to sway between taking into account what the ancient world was like re: the context of the time while using judgment on more modern history because it informs the way such things currently affect the world. There seems to be a lack of understanding of how much the actions of the church in the past (which often mimic or are very similar to how it is practiced today in non-Western countries) affects the quality of life both individualistically and societally for many people in the world. I original migrated from what is typically called a “third world” country, and the church seems almost as harmful now as it was in the past (violence, discrimination, bigotry, anti-intellectualism, misogyny, exorcisms, participation in genocides [Rwanda most recently], anti-medical interventions, and so much more). I ask for more caution when addressing religious topics esp with what appears to be a Western bias. Catholicism is very de-clawed as its power is significantly reduced in the Western world in comparison to how it is practiced in areas of more limited means.
I really do love your work, though.
Djforce_1 –
Another awesome “audio book”, a great complement to “Death Throes of the Republic”. Dan explains in his unique way how Europe went from the collapse of the Roman Empire to the end of Charlemagne, and how the Catholic church “matured” from a peaceful minority sect to the defacto government of Europe.
Not so much an exploration of a theme as much as a blow by blow, so some have complained it comes across as “…and then this happened”. Well, that’s how history unfolds sometimes. For me it fleshed out a part of history I have always wanted to learn more about.
My only complaint: It stopped after Charlemagne’s children. I wanted it to continue until the modern day, a total history of the German people and the Holy Roman Empire.